Squeeze, fold, open - with above marginal hands
Was on Feb. break this past week and got about 20 hours of poker in during the time off.
Ran into the following situations a few times and just didn't know what was optimal
1. AJo UTG or in EP are you opening?
2. JTs, T9s, 89s in EP or MP are you opening, limping, over limping
3. A limp or two and an open from HJ/CO and Button and SB calls and you are in BB with the following hands - KQs, JTs, 89s, AJo are you 3Betting, just calling, or making a tight fold?
14 Replies
It depends on stack sizes, reads on other players, how other players likely view me, etc.
Ditto the above -- as with most of poker, it depends. Need a lot more info.
AJo utg I fold.
JTs opening anywhere, the lower sc depends on table. Rather iso than over limp in mp, can over limp hj co btn.
KQs JTs can call or 3b, these hands play ok multi way but not a bad spot for dead money pickup. Calling 89s with a few 3b and either fold or 3b the AJo.
My tables are 8 handed FYI and I'm typically opening 5x.
1. AJo I always open anywhere.
2. JTs I always open anywhere. T9s LJ, 98s HJ.
3. How big is their raise? And who are they? I'm always going for a squeeze with KQs unless they're an OMC or nit. JTs it matters who it is etc., 98s muck, AJo really depends.
My tables are 8 handed. I open $3x utg and utg+1, and 4x all other positions.
1) I usually fold AJo utg
2) I open all those hands from any position
3) I sometimes 3-bet KQs and JTs, otherwise calling if the open raise isn’t too large. Usually folding AJo and T9s and 89s.
I'm going to make some assumptions based on the games I play - mostly 1/3, 9 handed, with ~$500 stacks and loose-splashy opponents...
1. AJo UTG or in EP are you opening?
Yes, I'm generally opening strong unsuited Broadway AX combos from EP, and usually folding if I get 3B, unless the 3B comes from the SB, or the 3B size is stupid-small.
2. JTs, T9s, 89s in EP or MP are you opening, limping, over limping
I'm never open-limping. I'm playing raise or fold from every position that isn't the BTN or the BB/straddle. Probably opening JTs an T9s from EP, and 98s from MP. Over-limping with those hands from MP.
3. A limp or two and an open from HJ/CO and Button and SB calls and you are in BB with the following hands - KQs, JTs, 89s, AJo are you 3Betting, just calling, or making a tight fold?
If I understand the action as a HJ or CO open, with BTN and SB calling, I'm probably 3B'ing KQs and AJo, calling with JTs, and folding 98s.
All of the above is subject to change based on table conditions, stack depths, reads, my table image, etc.
My tables are 8 handed. I open $3x utg and utg+1, and 4x all other positions.
1) I usually fold AJo utg
2) I open all those hands from any position
3) I sometimes 3-bet KQs and JTs, otherwise calling if the open raise isn’t too large. Usually folding AJo and T9s and 89s.
Curious about your rationale for opening smaller in EP and larger in LP.
If the reasoning is that we want to play smaller pots OOP and larger pots IP, the counter-argument would seem to be that we want to give opponents a worse price to call our raise when we're OOP, but a better price to call when we're IP, and we want to have lower SPR post-flop when we're OOP, mitigating opponents' position advantage.
Raising to a smaller size under the gun was suggested by Gary Blackwood in an Upswing podcast. I think it was in reference to splashy games where it's often going multiway. His explanation was short - that you are less likely to realize your equity in very early position so you can raise smaller. I think also multiway in early position you aren't super excited to be building a big pot.
So in my usual game, I'll open to 3x utg, and sometimes in the utg+1 as well, and open to 4x from the other positions. I do deviate some, depending on the table dynamics and the people in the game.
I also assume that weaker players will misread my bet sizing as dependent on my hand strength, when I am in fact usuallly varying the sizing based on my position. I figure this is an opportunity for opponents to make mistakes. Basically, I think it may throw weaker players off a bit.
Curious about your rationale for opening smaller in EP and larger in LP.If the reasoning is that we want to play smaller pots OOP and larger pots IP, the counter-argument would seem to be that we want to give opponents a worse price to call our raise when we're OOP, but a better price to call when we're IP, and we want to have lower SPR post-flop when we're OOP, mitigating oppo
Raising to a smaller size under the gun was suggested by Gary Blackwood in an Upswing podcast. I think it was in reference to splashy games where it's often going multiway. His explanation was short - that you are less likely to realize your equity in very early position so you can raise smaller. I think also multiway in early position you aren't super excited to be building a
Fair enough. Gary's a way better player than I am.
I'll also sometimes raise smaller with strong hands from EP, but hoping someone will 3B me. Sometimes I'll raise smaller in LP when action folds to me. Usually I'm just opening for the same size from every position though.
The debate over open sizes from EP vs LP seems never ending. I've gone back and forth. Not sure if this is correct, but if we 3B bigger from OOP, I'd think it's logical to raise bigger from EP, for the same reasons.
Was on Feb. break this past week and got about 20 hours of poker in during the time off.Ran into the following situations a few times and just didn't know what was optimal 1. AJo UTG or in EP are you opening?2. JTs, T9s, 89s in EP or MP are you opening, limping, over limping3. A limp or two and an open from HJ/CO and Button and SB calls and you are in BB with the following hand
1) Usually no unless there is a huge fish at the table.
2) Opening them sometimes, open all the time if deepstacked. Usually never open limping. Over limping 89s maybe, jts and tjs are good for isoraises.
3) Maybe 3betting/squeezing with KQs/ Ajo but depends on player, probably never flatting with these in the blinds. JTs, 89s sometimes 3b/squeezing oop but depend on stack depth and players. Might flat. Folding is also possible especially if your stack is short or opponent has short stacks.
When you are 3-betting OOP preflop, there is already at least a few BB in the pot and there is good fold equity that comes from a bigger 3-bet. Also, usually multiple players have already folded so it's less likely to go multiway.
When you open utg/ep, the fold equity is only in the blinds so it's not worth as much. And then you have the whole field left behind you still to act who can call or 3-bet in position to you.
Fair enough. Gary's a way better player than I am.I'll also sometimes raise smaller with strong hands from EP, but hoping someone will 3B me. Sometimes I'll raise smaller in LP when action folds to me. Usually I'm just opening for the same size from every position though.The debate over open sizes from EP vs LP seems never ending. I've gone back and forth. Not sure if this is c
10 handed table I'm always folding. Also usually folding UTG at a 9 handed table.
JTs I think I'm folding UTG & UTG1. I find it highly overrated, especially out of position. My selective memory is that I usually end up with 2nd pair out of position or get coolered vs a higher flush. T9s/98 just HJ or later for me. Vs a limp I prefer to iso raise and get heads up or 3 way. I could see limping along in HJ- if there are multiple sticky players left to act.
3. A limp or two and an open from HJ/CO and Button and SB calls and you are in BB with the following hands - KQs, JTs, 89s, AJo are you 3Betting, just calling, or making a tight fold?
It really depends on the opener/limpers/table dynamics. AJo seems like a 3B or fold kind of hand, capping your range by calling and taking a multiway flop out of position without good nut potential seems like a bad idea. T9s, 98s also highly overrated in this spot. I might call JTs if the opener or other players are bad enough. Squeezing if I think I can get folds or get it heads up. KQs is probably close in EV either way. With lowstakes rake and people under 4-betting, you probably want to go for the 3B unless you're against super nit, in which case fold.
I think you are asking the wrong question. All the hands in 1 or 2 are +EV at some tables a -EV at others. It depends on the table. The questions I would ask myself with these hands are:
1: How likely am I to get no more than 2 callers?
2: How likely am I to get 3-bet?
3: Post flop, can I realize my equity against these opponents more than I "should"?
If I am likely to get in a situation where I am 2-3 way as the preflop aggressor and my opponents are people I can outplay, then I'm raising any playable hand. If the V to my left is aggressive and dangerous, I'm tightening up from every position. If the table is generally more aggressive, I'm going to be much closer to GTO ranges and maybe even tighter.
With AJo UTG, if you raise and get called by 5 people, that's a disaster. You are in a losing position even with a reasonable flop like KJ4. If you are 3 bet, you probably need to fold. So if that is happening frequently, that's a disaster. If you raise AJo, get 1-2 callers who will overfold or overcall when you c-bet, it's a profitable raise. Some tables you can get away with murder, raising anything playable, other tables if you raise $10 you better be willing to play for $50+ against four and AJo isn't.
As for limping and overlimping, eliminate them from your game until you can define a really good reason to do it. You'll make the most money playing large pots, in position, heads up, against players worse than you. Your goal preflop is to get as many of those factors in play as you can.
I have come to the conclusion that calling multiway even when closing the action or even when calling from the sb is a leak. If there are more than two other players, I play raise or fold unless I have a moderate hand that can flop the nuts or draw to the nuts. So suited aces I might call, but KQs I'm raising or folding. If you think you'll get more than one caller to a reasonable squeeze bet, just fold.
As has been mention, a lot more information is needed.
But the most important piece of information that is required is where you stack up skillz wise against the table. If you're an expert, obviously do whatever you want. But if you're a losing / struggling / breakevenish type player in this environment, these are all trivial folds, imo. The "optimal" play for one player could easily be an "extremely detrimental" play for another.
I'm a ~okish winning player in my environment, but the majority of my winnings comes from playing well within my means / capability. So in general I would actually fold all of them (closest exception being KQs case depending on things, and maybe some other cases depending exactly on what "MP" is).
GcluelessstayinginmylanenoobG