The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched
Yes, of course, because they don't.
Well, it is basic, that's for sure. But that's why it has some pretty big flaws. Of course the very basic approach would be to look at a single hand and say that $2 rake is more than $1 rake, so the larger pot is better for the site. However, if a site wants to be more profitable, they're going to look at the bigger picture. I think this example is a good one:
If a site rakes at 5% of the pot up to a rake cap of $2, then whether the pot is $40 or $100 the site only receives $2. The recreational player with his weekend $100 might lose his $100 in two HU $100 pots of which only $40 of his money has been raked, him earning the site $2 before he disappears. It's obviously much better for the site if the loser loses five HU $40 pots, when
Exactly. And even better than that would be if the player swapped those small-mid size pots for a while, resulting in even more rake on that $200.
Unfortunately, all you could come up with for a reply was this, which in no way addressed the example:
He already admitted most pots are small or medium (not exceeding the rake limit) and if they are currently doing it, the recreational players are still playing.Regardless you can't make a claim and expect it to be taken seriously without any evidence, and neither have actually provided any evidence. Because I say so isn't evidence.
What are you talking about? You've been given a very clear mathematical example above; do you disagree with it? I'm pretty sure that 2 x $2 (rake on two $100 capped pots) = $4, 5 x $2 = $10 (rake on five $40 pots), and $10 is more than $4.
As I acknowledged it is a balance, but it is a a balance sites like GG know better than anyone here, and that's not debatable. For example they probably know the average time recreational players play and what they will tolerate losing and still return. And GG also returns the largest portion of their rake-back to losing players which they use to ensure their recreational playe
Agreed. Well, I don't know who has the highest RB, but if you say it's GG, I'll take your word for it.
And I would argue most recreational players don't want to grind so a little more action isn't necessarily a negative for them.
OK, but if it makes the site less money, why would they want that?
That's basic math. That fact that GG has increased the rake over the years proves that the game could tolerate a higher rate. That's a fact.
So why don't they just increase the rake some more? Seems like a much simpler approahc than some convoluted rigging scheme, doesn't it?
But you pretend that you proved they haven't rigged the game for action with zero evidence and pass it if as logic.
I've not pretended, suggested, or implied any such thing. This all started with a simple question to you when you suggested they had rigged their games with more action hands, and I asked "Why would they skew things to make less money?" You're the one making the claim, which you've not provided any evidence for, and more importantly, you haven't shown how "more action hands" even makes them more money. It's not impossible that it could, but you've yet to provide any solid reasoning for it.
you have to be more subtle. Everyone in this thread knows by now that you are a GG Poker shill. Show your GG graph and post your nick so I can look you up or just stfu.
lol, if you make a claim like that you should read my post history a bit better and you'll see i have a lot of objections with GG
They have preflop rake without a flop, they advertise a rakeback which is severely lower due to PVI which you cannot see for yourself, their promos are nowhere near as good as they advertise, i dont like their software, their graphs dont include rake paid which seems very scummy to me and the removal of HS was about the dumbest decision I ever seen a pokerroom make.
There is a lot wrong with GG... but its not rigged
lol, if you make a claim like that you should read my post history a bit better and you'll see i have a lot of objections with GGThey have preflop rake without a flop, they advertise a rakeback which is severely lower due to PVI which you cannot see for yourself, their promos are nowhere near as good as they advertise, i dont like their software, their graphs dont include rake
I understand you do not believe it is rigged. Despite your obvious belief that you believing something makes it true you can not prove that. You do not have access to enough information to prove it just as others are also denied access to the information necessary to prove it is rigged. So given they have made it impossible to prove rigged or not what seems most likely to you; the information is hidden because they do not want it to be proven they are honest or the information is hidden because they do not want it proven they are dishonest? Given the number of sites that have been shown to cheat only fools think the default should be to trust them.
Guys, I don't know if it's necessary to also post it here.
My explanation of what is really going on published on youtube
youtu.be/EKvqjXv5hKc
I made a separated thread in Discussion of poker sites.
Hope it will be enough to end the debate in a near future.
Guys, I don't know if it's necessary to also post it here.
My explanation of what is really going on published on youtube
youtu.be/EKvqjXv5hKc
I made a separated thread in Discussion of poker sites.
Hope it will be enough to end the debate in a near future.
This must be Paisting's "software engineer." 😃
Johnmir has cracked the code now go print money everybody!
geez what a cliffhanger
if its not possible to win btw, why do you keep on playing?
Is it really important?
I think that it's important that 4th biggest poker net controlls profitability of players. Unless online pro players suggest us to play 8 trillion hands more on iPoker and to check if opponent's flop hitting according to a stack of a winning player appear again.
Guys, would you like to play 8 trillion hands with all the cards opened to check if loosing player will hit a flop x2 more often then it's expected? I haven't got enough time for this.
Slugant, in fact, I play 2-3 times a weak, since i got a sport injury. And you can see that I play 0,5$ buy-in (I played 7$-15$-60$-100$ on PokerStars).
I don't play seriously any more, only to spend my time.
Normally I wouldn't post just an additional 4000 hands but since someone claimed I wouldn't here it is.
So over those 4000 additional hands my All-In Adjusted Differential increased over 1000000 chips, which is astonishing because during those approximately 40 additional tournaments I finished 3rd once and 4th once. So over 1187 all in hands where my equity was greater than 0% and less that 100% I won 49.33% of my EV.
Now when I asked DeepSeek "What is the probability of only winning 49.33% of your expected value in chips over 1187 all-in hands played over 400 tournaments of hold'em poker", this was its reply.
Man, after I realized how the worlds biggest poker room deals hands, I tried to use it on a low limit, to check, how it works.
I lost 42 SnG (1,5$/45 players/NLH) in a row. No any prizes (7 places paid of 45) hit in 42 tries.
My average ITM on these tournaments was 20%. A chance not to hit prizes 42 times in a row having average ITM=20% are 0,0085%. And it happens once in 400 000 tournaments.
What about this one?
Why - software simply blocks winning which exceeds an "acceptable" limit for a player according to his activity in the room (number of tables played)/bankroll amount/transaction history.
I will publish one more video after people finally realize that online poker gaming is a sequence of predictable positive and negative push-fold hands/posflop combinations.
You play SnG. You started with an allin - AAvs55 (80%), you will get "Top pair flopped vs a set flopped" on a buble. If you understand the software logic, you fold this top pair and join prizes.
You get prizes 5 of 10 tournaments like that (50% ITM on a short distance), then you lose every (!) allin on a final (top 9 players, but still no prize)/prefinal table during the next 40+ tournaments.
PS. Guys, before i withdrawn funds from Pokerstars account, my 7$ SnG (72 players in average - late reg is available) ITM was 23%.
After withdrawing money i stopped winning (18% ITM) and played 1,5$ SnG 45 players. And my ITM there - 14%.
Of course it's not that statistics for iPoker, that commercial algorithm shows once in 8,5 trillion hands in average behavior. But it's still interesting.
Did Monteroy pass away? Almost 17k posts and the Daddy of the Riggie thread and he just suddenly vanished off 2p2 in 2023. He lived here
Guy, I'm trying to explain it different ways.
Here is a record of my premium hands, pocket top pairs, top pairs flopped.
Situation.
You got AJo+ and at the end of the hand, you saw that your opponent got a better hand (88+, AQo+).
You can push any next 88+/AJo+ hand and it will be the best on the table. You can check this. If you just played a premium hand, and this hand was not the best on the table, then the next one will be the best in 95% cases. Just upload here two premium hands in a row "killed" by a better hand on the table.
(Yeah, a chance to got beaten by a better preflop hand having, for example, AKo is 35%. Not 95%.)
LOL the amount of time and effort that Johnimir and Amazing3338 put into their conspiracy is hilarious but also quite sad
Thank you, man. In fact, yes. I'm not kidding, i'm sad I had to waste so much time for this. More then that. I don't even play online seriously (haven't played something serious for 3 years already...)
But, understanding the situation, how many people was and are fooled. And how hard it is to prove the game is not random, I had to take part in all this and analyze the game, just to contribute something...
Generally, yes, it's a time waste. I'm not going to be in this for too long actually, I will just try to share how it works. Some guys will understand also (like those, who played with me and saw everything with their own eyes).
I'm also glad many people who played with me on one table stopped playing, I managed to show them what is going on just showing my every hand. They realized it's not really a poker game in general. So I wouldn't say I didn't manage anything.
At the same time, i wanna coach tennis, work with people. So, guys, i won't bother you for too long.
P.S. By the way. While i was playing in iPoker, many guys, who saw that i show every valuable hand after a game cone, realized, that a card dealing process in iPoker is simply crazy. And they started to show every valuable hand too. And during many SnGs 6 max we saw - all the hands of players opened each game cone! And the dealing process is simply and acrade game. Poker rooms use that we don't see each other's hands badly. And the game looks really random (somehow random) when we don't see opponent's hands.
but who killed JFK?
It's the second research in my "to do" list!
You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?
You also said you havent played seriously in years and you play freebies on GG. But even before that you were never a force to be reckoned with at lowstakes+ Also you said this in the comment section of your own video: "Although I don’t even play online poker for any significant amount, I have no goal of winning online poker"
That doesnt really align with the moniker of Expert poker player, how come you call yourself that? Is it maybe because you are delusional or are you an expert poker player when you can show a flop where your A7o is outflopped by 96o?
You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?You also said you havent played seriously in years and you play freebies on GG. But even before that you were never a force to be reckoned with at lowstakes+ Also you said this in the comment section of your own video: "Although I don’t even play online poker for any significant amount, I have no goal of winning online
I suggest to discuss the topic, any comments about statistical research?
Do you agree with the results of it?
You call yourself an expert level poker player.... how come?You also said you havent played seriously in years and you play freebies on GG. But even before that you were never a force to be reckoned with at lowstakes+ Also you said this in the comment section of your own video: "Although I don’t even play online poker for any significant amount, I have no goal of winning
Okay, I answer, so you could relax.
"Expert poker player" - is some characteristic that is mentioned to let players of any level understand - they can discuss any theory/practice aspects with me. So that, they feel free to speak fluently. You saw my speech in the chat, you see i'm "at least confident". Personally - you don't know me.
This is an "official" preamble.
You don't need to pay attention to this, cause we discuss totally different topic about a software and a statistics of the game.
Most part (80% people - already tested, it's an official information) don't even pay attention to this, cause it's simply not important because we are not going to play poker. Same as me, it's not really important who i am, it's important what I really show and say in a concrete dialog.
its kinda important who you are, or what you are... which in this case is delusional
because of that you think you have done serious statistical research, which you have not. Its a bunch of incoherent rambling and I suggest you seek help before things spiral out of control.
its kinda important who you are, or what you are... which in this case is delusional
because of that you think you have done serious statistical research, which you have not. Its a bunch of incoherent rambling and I suggest you seek help before things spiral out of control.
Do you mean there is no connection between my stack size and my opponents flop hitting frequency?
It's interesting what other guys think.
TELL US MOAR
