Running over the table - do you like this bluff? (JTs).

Good hand to check raise with. I might go a bit bigger with both value and bluffs. We are repping pretty narrow, I guess we could do this with AQ but mostly a straight and trips / boat.

This feels like button-clicking on the river. What hands are you representing that take this x-b-x/r line? What kind of range are you giving for V2?

H's turn bet compresses V2 to TPGK+ or NFD. On river, V2 would just check back his SDV like AcKc, AJs or even 99.

So what does V value bet here on river? V is targeting a very thin range of H's weak Qx or our Tx at a very suspicious sizing. H can have 8x and J9s, so V should know that H can xr river. But V bets small anyway. Weird.

H xr should be bigger probably if we're doing it. V is not folding his AQ or KK/AA to Banana getting 2-1 if he's got some hours with him.

I think your threads would benefit from a better understanding of some common terms. Splashy opponents play too many hands by limping / calling too wide. V1 sounds LAGish, not passive, if he's opening 32s and 3B'ing A8o, then jamming flop. If V2 is TAG, he'd likely c-bet flop, raise turn, or go for a bigger size on the river.

As for the hand...

PRE - seems fine.

FLOP - seems standard.

TURN - betting and checking both seem like viable options. Your sizing seems fine.

RIVER - I don't understand the thinking here, with this check raise.

Checking the river to evaluate, and likely call a reasonable sized bet seems fine. We block straights, there's a busted BDFD on board, and the river card is a brick. V might bluff if we check. Potentially occasionally he bets worse for really thin value.

Betting thin for value is also probably okay. We could probably take block bet sizing and get looked up by some Ax, T9, or 99. When V calls our turn bet, he has those hands and some club draws in his range.

By raising, we're either turning a decent bluff catcher into a bluff, or we're hoping to get called by worse. To do the former, we have to be sure our hand is no good, and I don't see how we can make that assessment, the way this was played. And it's hard, if not impossible to find a worse hand V can have that will call here. Maybe just T9s.

If V has a better hand, and can figure this out, we're just spewing with this raise. It's not impossible V checked back the flop with a better hand, was fine flatting turn when you bet 80% pot, and is just milking you for value when you slow down and check river, figuring you for a weak hand that can't call a bigger bet.

If we wanted to get paid more for our hand, or make V fold something just marginally better, like KT, we could probably do that with a smaller raise, like $105, or possibly even a min-click. But it still seems like FPS or random button clicking.

I would just bluff catch here, by calling his small bet. Expecting to lose often enough, but with the pot odds, we don't need to be good more than 20% of the time.

Yeah, I see this more online than live, but when a "semi-studied TAG" starts block betting IP on the river, IMO it is usually to induce a check-raise from an aggro opponent.

I like the thought behind the raise, and the hand selection, but the sizing versus a block doesn't really accomplish enough to make it better than just bluff-catching. V is going to fold his weird bluffs and call with Qx, overpairs, and maybe even AT.

Right. It's hard to do at the table, but the xr has to be sized with the V's minimum defense range/strategy in mind. I wonder what the solver says here. V should likely be calling everything AQ or better getting 2-1.

If you were the V and Banana makes it ~300 to go, you now get to call 450/265, or 5-3. Banana has all the 8x and J9s. You have to fold all your AT, your AcQc and KcQc and maybe your KcKx too.

But I still cannot figure what V block bets with on river. He is targeting such a narrow range. I would rather xr a polar bet from V, since he can have so many busted broadway flushes, including QcX.

I'm with you all the way to the river. On the river, if I'm V I'm scratching my head, but I'm calling you with KT and every other hand that beats you. Is V value betting a weaker T? Like T9? Maybe, but V also is a "TAG" who raise UTG, so his Tx are hands like AT, KT, QT. T9 UTG is probably not in his range. Nor are most 3x, maybe not even A3, and if somehow he had A3, or 9T, is he value betting those? 1/3rd pot OTTR is never a bluff. He thinks you have a weak T, and is betting to get a weak T to call.

If I'm V with KT, you are at most making me feel gross and kicking myself for value betting too thin, as I toss a chip into the middle. If he felt good enough about his hand to value bet it, then he has to feel good enough to call when getting 2:1. If you x/r to like $500, now I can fold second pair and just imagine you played your 8 crazy. If you're going to play a crazy line, you have to go crazy big. Of course, he could have an 8+ here and just identified you as weak, in which case even your $500 would be snapped off. V is in position and could have flopped nutted with QQ or 88. Opting to try to let you catch up and then trying to get a crying call OTTR.

Good question. The guy was on the tighter side and his UTG range should be very narrow. He's opened about one hand every half an hour so about 10% RFI. UTG I'd give him no wider than ATo/KTs/QJs. Felt like a weak Q checking back flop.

What are you actually representing? 3s full? What else plays this way on the brick river?

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I'm with AF. Are you trying to get him to fold better?

8X, J9, TT, Q8s

But are you x/r with any of those hands? If you had 8x or J9, you are opening yourself up to a shove because you went from showing weakness to a ton of strength. His boats looking to get value from low hands are now given the green flag to rip it in.

If you have a boat, are you going to risk V checking back and look for a x/r against a V who has not raised since preflop? It seems like you lose a ton of value to Qx, his most likely holding, if you don't lead.

I think the main problem with the bluff is that strong hands aren't likely to take this line. It's hard to put any hand in this line, so that forces a bluff catch with any pair+.

I don't like villain's small bet in position on this board unless he was trying to induce. I can see why you would want to bluff. It looks like he is going for value but is not that strong. I don't think the x/r is that bad.

Exactly

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I'm not a big fan of the river raise. For the reasons everyone else has pointed out.

But what no one is talking about is table image? When I first read the original post I thought "man this guy must get a lot of action!" If you get called here you'll lose a big pot, but you can show your hand, and players will be more likely to call value bets later. If your river bluff gets through, you can still show, get the same "image" and possibly tilt a player. Unfortunately table image can be a two edge sword. If you already have an image of a bluffer, your raise in this spot is less likely to get through

I'm not saying the river bluff raise is correct. I'm just trying to look at the pros of making such a move. Sometimes poker is more dynamic than ABC poker.

StupidBanana what would you say is your image is at the poker table? Do your value bets get called at a higher than normal rate?

Result:

I wanted to add before looking that I don't see why the river raise amount is bad. It seems about in line with what you'd make it if looking for good value on a call. Those who said make it 300 or whatever, it makes no sense. 35 to 300? I even think someone said 500, what?

Also, someone mentioned villain folding KK, well to me AQ, KK, and AA are all basically the same hand for villain as it's highly unlikely banana has kings or aces. Imo, while I'm not a fan of a check raise here as you i think just running down a weak value bet is a good outcome I think villains only range better than hero is JJ and A10/K10. Villain probably has to fold these but I could certainly see a call. I check back JJ quite a bit on this flop especially 3 way but maybe I'm in the minority.

I still think the question isn't what is banana repping as much as what do you think villain is making that play with? Bet feels a little weak to be the nuts

Well its not that bad but some ppls logic with super bet small sizes, they will call any raise thinking they have induced with tiny bets.

Also occasionally you'll run into nutted slowplay hands, just use it with caution.

High risk high reward. Even if this hand doesn't go thru, it will make our image even crazier. When we get monsters everybody's paying us off. Also to balance all those bluffs you have, you are going to valuebet alot thinner than usual.

Just make sure you change gear from time to time.