GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
It's funny because when AD and Lebron played together, another poster said "well if AD isn't enough, then are the Lakers supposed to acquire Jokic or Luka?? That's crazy".Accordingly, we can lock the thread up right now because we already know that Lebron stinks compared to MJ and others by needing to team up with Luka... Needing Luka makes the case that he stinks.That proves h
I know for you results do not count but they won 1 ring didn’t they ?
Seem was enough ….
The rest is just mumbo jumbo trying to deny a stats u cant overcome ….yeah they did win 1 ring .
Not everyone in my top 10 fulfills all 4 criteria, so we can agree to disagree that Bird fails 1 of the 4... i.e. we disagree on whether the 81' Celtics were a "normal" roster, but regardless, Bird fulfills the other 3 criteria (great chemistry, title frequency, and carrying the scoring load), while Lebron fulfills none of the 4 criteria.
Yes bird is in top 10 for me .
No you wrong , LeBron fulfill many .
Like leading scoring 10 point over his second option to win a ring in 2013 is one example to start win .
And won more mvp final then bird ….meaning more title has the best players and more rings as well as a whole .
Ps: title frequency is just a garbage cop out , people focus on ring not ring frequency lol
Ie: u said u had magic out of the top 10 ??? Ring frequency out the window now ? And you put curry ? Gtfo….
There is a reason u dont put your top 10 list , u would get demolished by your stats and narrated requirements pretty quickly …
Oh so you’re saying assisted rate is a really really bad, oversimplified measure of how good a player is to the point of being useless? That’s probably why it’s negatively correlated to team wins.
I agree completely and this is what I’ve been telling you since last year. Thanks for listening to me finally but it looks like you lost again.
What avenue is fallguy gonna take to weasel rat out of this one? Time will tell but he gonna find that weasel rat cheese before he scurries away and shifts the goalposts.
I know for you results do not count but they won 1 ring didn’t they ?
Seem was enough ….
The rest is just mumbo jumbo trying to deny a stats u cant overcome ….yeah they did win 1 ring .
People saying "if AD isn't enough" happened since 2021, so now that AD, Reaves, Westbrook and every good role player in the league isn't enough, the only option is to get the very best player in the league - Luka or Jokic - by definition, if a player needs to acquire the best player to have a chance, then they aren't good... The worst players in the league are supposed to need the best player, so Lebron shouldn't have the same needs as the worst players.
Lebron's efficiency has always been boosted by facing zero defensive attention because he's alongside the best player in the league arguably.. Ditto for his previous team-ups and Big 3's.Otoh, his efficiency was normal back when he had MJ-type casts from 04-10'. And the higher PPG is from the teams averaging 20 more PPG than when Jordan last played.. The easiest scoring format
My stats are from when he turned 40. Back in December. 2 months before Luka joined the Lakers.
How embarrassing for you that LeBron was killing it with no Luka.
Sometimes I wonder if the offensive scheme, and the role LeBron James has in said scheme, impacts his assisted rate. Like maybe if he moved off the primary ball handler role he may get assisted more. Basketball how does it work?
That's just crazy talk.
The 2013 Heat faced teams that only won 38, 45, and 49 games to make the Finals, while 89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS Cavs (57 wins) and Ewing's Knicks (52 wins), and then he gave the Pistons their only losses of those playoffs...
Accordingly, 80's Jordan would easily win the 2013 East with no help and Lebron's Eastern runs were completely "manufactured"... He put the top 3 players on his team to dilute the comp, which gifted him 8 straight Finals appearances.. A completely manufactured and unimpressive career of teaming up with the best players and then perennially-losing.
My stats are from when he turned 40. Back in December. 2 months before Luka joined the Lakers.
How embarrassing for you that LeBron was killing it with no Luka.
AD was leading the team in scoring on December 2, so Lebron was 2nd option.. Admit it, you did poorly in school
AD is a franchise player and elite scorer, so Lebron doesn't face maximum defensive attention.. This is the case since "the decision"... Before that, he had "normal" rosters like Jordan, Curry and everyone else, so his efficiency was regular.
AD was leading the team in scoring on December 2, so Lebron was 2nd option.. Admit it, you did poorly in school
What does December the 2nd have to do with anything I posted?
I talked about how well LeBron has done since turning 40.
You said something about it being because of Luka.
I said we are talking about how he went from his birthday (late December btw), which has a lot of data outside the time playing with Luka.
You write something about AD leading the team in scoring as of the 2nd of December, which has nothing to do with anything.
Simple question. Are you not impressed with what LeBron has done since turning 40? There is only one correct answer to this. If you actually answer it honestly, you might actually get some credit.
People saying "if AD isn't enough" happened since 2021, so now that AD, Reaves, Westbrook and every good role player in the league isn't enough, the only option is to get the very best player in the league - Luka or Jokic - by definition, if a player needs to acquire the best player to have a chance, then they aren't good... The worst players in the league are supposed to need
Is that what happened with curry in 2016 ?
Ps: But you know Lebron isn’t the best player in the league right ?
So what’s wrong with him to play with a great players now ?
Kareem, Shaq , magic , wilt , « dwade » did play with great players didn’t they ?
Oh so you’re saying assisted rate is a really really bad, oversimplified measure of how good a player is to the point of being useless? That’s probably why it’s negatively correlated to team wins.
I agree completely and this is what I’ve been telling you since last year. Thanks for listening to me finally but it looks like you lost again.
Assisted rate is extremely valuable because we know that anyone with a low-assisted rate is a primary ballhandler - that part is set in stone - anyone under 40% is a primary ballhandler.. Full stop... This fact allows us to calculate the team assist rankings of high-scoring primary ball-handlers (ball-dominators), by looking at players with 25 ppg and under 40% assisted rate.
The numbers show that these ball-dominators averaged 18th in team assists for the 96 instances since 1997 (96 instances of a player averaging 25 ppg and under 40% assisted rate) and they had top 5 assist teams only 5% of the time (5 of 96)... Of course we know that scorers with higher assisted rates (over 50%) had much higher assist teams - they ranked 10th in 87 instances and had top 5 assist teams 41% of the time (36 of 87).
So the assisted rate stat is valuable to see that high-scoring primary ball-handlers (ball-dominators) produce lower assist teams, which is negatively correlated with the best basketball, such as champions, who average 8th in team assists since 1980.
However, you'll notice this language that I've used hundreds of times itt "anyone under 40% is a primary ballhandler" leaves room for the occasional primary ball-handler to have assisted rates materially above 40%, because it does happen on rare occasion, such as Stockton, or now we see Lebron leveraging additional transition opportunities to artificially prop up his assisted rates... Other guys that actually dominate the ball (like Ant) might have higher variation in their assisted rates for one reason or another.. This is why CAREER assisted rate is valuable, since it cuts out the noise of individual seasons or parts of seasons - history shows that anyone with under 40% career assisted rate is a primary ball-handler.
Regarding Lebron's higher assisted rates lately, he's leveraging some additional fastbreak opportunities (I'll post the fastbreak stats from before the Luka trade and after later this week) but still dominating the ball just as much as before.. We know this by looking at the preeminent ball-dominance stat - time of possession - there are no "exceptions" with this stat.. Lebron was at 6.2 minutes last game, which is easily point guard level, while Luka has taken over the Lakers with a massive 9.0 just like he had in Dallas.. This won't work in the playoffs, especially with older Lebron needing a horrific turnover rate to produce.
That isn't the point I made - Luka is an elite scorer, just like AD, Wade, Kyrie, or Love, and by virtue of being elite scorers, they took defensive attention away from Lebron, which inflated Lebron's efficiency compared to Jordan, Curry, or others that had regular scoring help had "normal" casts of 1 franchise player (and therefore faced greater defensive attention that result
Blue porcupine. Trumpet field shocks.
Sorry, just trying to talk whatever communication language you have of never addressing a post.
I'll keep it simple.
Does it impress you that LeBron averaging 27/8/8 shooting 55% from the field and 43% since he turned 40. Much done without either Luka or AD?
**** it, Does it impress you that LeBron averaging 27/8/8 shooting 55% from the field and 43% since he turned 40, even if Luka and AD played the entire time? Something no one else in the history of the game has come close to doing.
What does December the 2nd have to do with anything I posted?
I talked about how well LeBron has done since turning 40.
You said something about it being because of Luka.
That isn't the point I made - Luka is an elite scorer, just like AD, Wade, Kyrie, or Love, and by virtue of being elite scorers, they took defensive attention away from Lebron, which inflated Lebron's efficiency compared to Jordan, Curry, or others that had regular scoring help and had "normal" casts of 1 franchise player (and therefore faced greater defensive attention that resulted in lower efficiency).
Lebron is no different from any other player in the sense that his efficiency declines when he has less scoring help and faces greater defensive attention.. Fans always make the excuse that "Lebron went 1 on 5" to explain his low efficiency in the 07' Finals, 15' Finals, or other series (08' ECSF).. These many examples of low efficiency make it clear that when Lebron had normal rosters of 1 franchise player like MJ, Curry and others, his efficiency could be worst-ever, and was otherwise mostly normal and unspectacular.
It's important to reiterate why Lebron needs so much scoring help... Specifically, since he's too ball-dominant at carry-job volumes, he can't carry the scoring load against top teams and needs the aforementioned all-time scoring help... Otoh, guys like Bird, Curry, MJ, or Duncan could drop 40 while the ball moved, so they could carry the scoring load against top teams and win with less star help (which allows GM's to sign more defenders).
Ultimately, Lebron inability to carry the scoring load against top teams means he can't defeat max defensive attention and therefore he needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention... Again, this isn't top 10 caliber.
I'll keep it simple.
Does it impress you that LeBron averaging 27/8/8 shooting 55% from the field and 43% since he turned 40. Much done without either Luka or AD.
He had AD to inflate his efficiency.. So no
When he has normal rosters of 1 franchise player like everyone else, his efficiency is pretty normal (04-10, 19)
Lebron is like everyone else in that hos efficiency declines if he has less scoring help and therefore faces greater defensive attention (07' Finals, 15' Finals, 08' ECSF)
Oh so you’re saying assisted rate is a really really bad, oversimplified measure of how good a player is to the point of being useless? That’s probably why it’s negatively correlated to team wins.
I agree completely and this is what I’ve been telling you since last year. Thanks for listening to me finally but it looks like you lost again.
Assisted rate is extremely valuable because we know that anyone with a low-assisted rate is a primary ballhandler - that part is set in stone - anyone under 40% is a primary ballhandler.. Full stop... This fact allows us to calculate the team assist rankings of high-scoring primary ball-handlers (ball-dominators), by looking at players with 25 ppg and under 40% assisted rate.
The numbers show that these ball-dominators averaged 18th in team assists for the 96 instances since 1997 (96 instances of a player averaging 25 ppg and under 40% assisted rate) and they had top 5 assist teams only 5% of the time (5 of 96)... Of course we know that scorers with higher assisted rates (over 50%) had much higher assist teams - they ranked 10th in 87 instances and had top 5 assist teams 41% of the time (36 of 87).
So the assisted rate stat is valuable to see that high-scoring primary ball-handlers (ball-dominators) produce lower assist teams, which is negatively correlated with the best basketball, such as champions, who average 8th in team assists since 1980.
However, you'll notice this language that I've used hundreds of times itt "anyone under 40% is a primary ballhandler" leaves room for the occasional primary ball-handler to have assisted rates materially above 40%, because it does happen on rare occasion, such as Stockton, or now we see Lebron leveraging additional transition opportunities to artificially prop up his assisted rates... Other guys that actually dominate the ball (like Ant) might have higher variation in their assisted rates for one reason or another.. This is why CAREER assisted rate is valuable, since it cuts out the noise of individual seasons or parts of seasons - history shows that anyone with under 40% career assisted rate is a primary ball-handler.
Regarding Lebron's higher assisted rates lately, he's leveraging some additional fastbreak opportunities (I'll post the fastbreak stats from before the Luka trade and after later this week) but still dominating the ball just as much as before.. We know this by looking at the preeminent ball-dominance stat - time of possession - there are no "exceptions" with this stat.. Lebron was at 6.2 minutes last game, which is easily point guard level, while Luka has taken over the Lakers with a massive 9.0 just like he had in Dallas.. This won't work in the playoffs, especially with older Lebron needing a horrific turnover rate to produce.
No you wrong , LeBron fulfill many .
Like leading scoring 10 point over his second option to win a ring in 2013
Carrying the scoring load on the CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL is important because teams sometimes make the Finals without facing a 50-win team like the 13' Heat.. Lebron cannot carry the scoring load on the top level, so he isn't top 10.
AD was robbed in 20' and Bird in 81'.
It's just the opinion of a couple dozen journalism majors, so this is why media accolade isn't in my top 10 ranking either.. and no stats of course.
My top 10 ranking is only demonstrations of top 10 basketball.. i.e. great chemistry, great teams, title frequency, carrying scoring load on the top level (Finals), aka defeating max defensive attention
Ps: title frequency is just a garbage cop out , people focus on ring not ring frequency lol
You care about someone winning 5 titles in 40 years?... That isn't better than Lebron's 4 in 22.
Ie: u said u had magic out of the top 10 ??? Ring frequency out the window now ? And you put curry ? Gtfo….
Can't carry the scoring load
Way too carried
There is a reason u dont put your top 10 list , u would get demolished by your stats and narrated requirements pretty quickly …
MJ
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Curry
Hakeem
Jokic
Magic
Lebron
Oscar
(Hakeem was a monster carrying the scoring load in Finals)
Cool, now that we are over 40%, assisted rate it's not THAT important. It's about time in possession.
I'm not really sure what we do with that. I mean every team has a point guard.
I assume Curry out of the top 10 now because he's high for time in possession.
Cool, now that we are over 40%, assisted rate it's not THAT important. It's about time in possession.
I'm not really sure what we do with that. I mean every team has a point guard.
I assume Curry out of the top 10 now because he's high for time in possession.
Curry straddled 4-5 minutes for his prime and had the lowest of any starting PG.. This low time of possession gave teammates time with the ball, which allowed guys like Draymond to develop for example... Dray would never see the light of day on Lebron's team
And again, assisted rate helped us confirm that high-scoring primary ball-handlers (ball-dominators), produce low assist teams, which is negativity correlated with champions (higher assist teams)
