Shove or Check fold?

So you 3-bet with garbage preflop against two players, without having reads on either of them?

AP, I don't think you always have to shove here. I think you could go a smaller sizing like 175ish to look like you're trying to go for value without folding everything out of villain's range. Everything bricked and your opponent is going to perceive you as trying to get value from worse Ax here which is going to be a sizeable portion of his range and he might sigh fold AJ, AT and worse Ax. If he shoves on you, you can make an easy fold without losing the maximum.

I think this is a really terrible 3-bet preflop. I'm just folding preflop.

But since you've come this far and you have no showdown value, I say bet big enough to get AJ and worse to fold.

Please put pot sizes on each street.

Pre-flop is a fold -- maybe do this from position, but not from the blinds.

Personally, I don't like down bets. I'd go ~$50 on the flop as if I had an A and was trying to weed out draws.

Any reads? If there is any chance they will fold a worse A or were drawing, bet $125 - $150. Otherwise, just check / give up. Don't show!!!

PRE - I play mostly raise or fold from the SB. If you're not confident in your post-flop skills, I'd mostly just fold these low suited connectors. Once you get more confidence, you can start opening up your range a bit.

FLOP - I mostly check range from OOP as the PFR. This board sort of smacks our 3B'ing range, so we can make a small c-bet, but only if we're willing to barrel turn, even on a brick.

TURN - the 7c is a brick. If we 3B pre, and c-bet the flop, we could go for an over-bet here. Betting 75 on the turn just to check-fold on a river brick is pure spew.

RIVER - We have no showdown value at all. But V probably doesn't have a very strong hand when he just flats small bets on flop and turn. I don't like how we got here, but our only chance of winning is by betting.

What size to bet on the river is going to vary, but if we're just trying to make V fold out weak Ax holdings, $180 ought to get it done.

In GTO world, this is a sound play, and on the river, 56hh is almost always give up, while 56 any other suit is a shove. The reason being that the primary holding your opponent will fold are flush draws and 56hh blocks A5, 56 & 45 hearts, so just missing those hands from V's air range is enough for the computer to give up.

In the real world, your opponent likely has a much tighter range on the river than a GTO villain. Hands like QJhh, all JT, KJ, KQ, QQ are all supposed to be in V's range and are supposed to fold to the shove. I'd suggest that human V's likely are not getting to the river with most of these hands and would either fold or try to bluff earlier. Especially a hand like JThh, huge combo draw is probably raising more than GTO. Additionally, V is supposed to fold AT-AQ suited at least sometimes. Most live Vs aren't even going to think of folding AQ and some will call with AT. V isn't supposed to have any offsuit ace below AKo. AQo and AJo could definitely be here and could definitely call sometimes.

So I think most Vs end up here with a much stronger range than GTO on average and is more likely to call you with hands like AQ or AJ than they should. In theory, you should be able to bluff off a weak A, but in practice there are a lot of people at these stakes who would call you down with A3. I think you find yourself running into a brick wall too often turning the play into a massive punt unless you have some kind of history with V to know their tendencies. Are they passive weak (they will fold AQ to a big bet), or are they passive stubborn (they will call with A3). Until you can put V in a bucket, you probably shouldn't try this large of a bluff.

I think it's a case where what's good in theory, is sometimes punting against live players. If you want to play an aggressive line with 56hh here, I think checking the flop with the intention of x/r is stronger in practice than in theory. If they are aggressive, they will stab too often and have a hard time playing against a x/r that most will assume it is AA or KK. They are folding hands that continue in GTO world like KQ, KJ, QJ. And you have some equity against some strong hands if called. If they are passive, they might check back a hand that will pay off your flush and you get a free card.

As for preflop, it isn't bad. Playing tight pre-flop is a quick way to become profitable at low stakes, but you'll be eaten alive if you move up in stakes. It's better to learn how to play these hands when the stakes are low, than to move up and be forced to learn against better players - or be a small winner in $1/$2 forever AKA TAG purgatory. Plus, being a TAG is boring and this is a game. Games shouldn't be boring. So don't listen to those who say "never" 3 bet these. But recognize its a very hard hand to navigate post-flop. It will often be losing post-flop.

So don't always 3-bet it. 3-bet when you can identify a good reason to be wider. I'll 3bet with it, but only after I've been at the table for a while or if I already know the relevant players and their tendencies. If I'm doing this OOP, I'm probably targeting a specific player who I believe is going to make large post-flop mistakes. Or I'm playing a friend that I care more about humiliating than the money. If you have a V who is going to fold AK on the river overjam, then by all means fire away. If you have a V who is going to call you down with JJ... Both player types inhabit these stakes. If you don't know which one V is, you probably shouldn't 3-bet 56s against them. You don't want to do this against unknowns.

Thanks for your message. 7c isn't a total brick though, I do pick up a few more outs. 8 on the turn will make it a straight for me.

It is a brick to the hands you are trying to represent.

Agreeing with a lot of what yamihere wrote. Me, I'm not so sure I want to 3b this pre vs call. If I do, I make it bigger. 50 or so. If I 3!, I was going to say bombs away, but I like yami's idea of x-raise a lot more. This should really connect with your represented range, but if it x's through, yay, free draw. A 1/3 bet is the worst of both worlds. Ofc they're going to call this with all their range. Surprised you got a fold, tbh.

We've a 15 out draw on the turn, 6 high, 125-ish in the pot., 75 is...ehhhh. Any A and most Ks are still calling, unless your image is a milking nit. At this point, I don't know that an overbet gets a fold though. Maybe now play for a x-raise? If they x-back, they might be drawing for a higher flush than you.

AP, w/e called that turn, calls this river unless you shove. And maybe then too. 275 or so in pot, 300 ish back. A shove looks sus as can be, because you're not playing AK etc this way, are you?

Cliffs: don't 3! this. If you must, 3! bigger. Go for a big x-r flop, shove turn. Just MHO.

river shove would make no sense, what hands do you bet the turn this size then shove river?

If AC is still Floor manager, i suggest folding and going to cry directly to him, wouldn’t hurt to pretend you’re about to jump from the rail to the roulette tables 4 stories below demanding a free gin & tonic.

otherwise fold river
also jam river
hope this helps

Also if Soner (semi bald turkish guy in his 50s) is still there, call him fat and bald from Charlie.
Thank you

Pre flop is absolutely fine. As long as you understand it’s not a play you make all the time it is a perfectly acceptable light 3!

I actually like the idea to check raise on the flop a lot. This was really great advice and something I’m going to keep in mind in these types of situations. I do think a standard cbet is fine here as well but you should size up to put pressure on his under pairs

Turn: I don’t see how you can just check here. I think continuing is a must

I’d just give up on the river after two calls

Nothing wrong with playing a 3bet pot and losing. It’s going to happen and this hand is totally fine and not a blunder in my opinion. Learning how to play these spots is crucial in getting better and moving up

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You just go by general population reads and play accordingly. Villain also has no reads on you. This hand plays fine post flop. Sometimes V whiffs and you take it down, sometimes you hit a nice hand and win a nice pot, sometimes you give up and lose.

You’re taking a lower variance approach and that’s fine but this is not “button clicking” nor a bad play

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It's a brick in the sense that it doesn't complete any draws on the flop, doesn't change the nuts, doesn't interact with the board in a way that would likely improve someone to 2P, and likely doesn't interact with either player's range getting to the turn.

The fact that we're bluffing and it gives us some additional outs to make a straight doesn't make it a meaningful card. It's still a brick, when we're repping top pair or better for value, and our most likely bluffs will be flush draws, or some Broadway combo draws, not gut shot draws to a 9-high straight or a low flush.

Don't think in terms of how a card helps our actual hand. Think in terms of how it interacts with the board, our range, our opponent's range, and our actual hand. We can continue to barrel here because we do pick up more outs, but we shouldn't necessarily expect V to fold a lot more when the turn isn't likely to improve our equity, considering the rest of our range.