GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
The 94' Bulls were scrubs that won via 3-peat chemistry.
So the 94' Bulls were propped up by 3-peat chemistry and a honeymoon period where no one cared to play them without MJ - a massive letdown for every opponent.. .
When you have an incredibly dumb theory like this, you should probably try to have evidence.
After Lebron leaving the Heat, Bosh and Wade stayed and went 37-45.
After the Lakers 3peat, they lost in the finals and then Shaq left but Kobe stayed. Lakers went 34-48.
When Magic had to retire, the Lakers went from a 58-25 team that dominated for a decade to a 43-39 first round exit team.
After the Warriors fell apart, they went 15-50 the next year. They had none of their stars so opponents should've had no interest in trying at all and should've just let them win all their games.
After the Bulls second 3 peat, they lost their star studded support cast, and went 13-37. How come they didn't get a honeymoon period where everyone showed up uninspired and just let them win?
Lakers are 15 to 1 (If you aren't sure how these types of odds work PM me and I'll give you my 12 year old nephews number and he'll walk you through it), so they aren't expected to win it.
The only reason the Lakers' odds aren't much better is because Lebron cannot play anywhere near 82 games and the all-star game at 40 years old like MJ did... His inability to play 82 games stems from his inability to manage his energy by playing off teammates instead of dominating the ball.. This approach also allows better chemistry with Luka so both guys can achieve maximum consistency and production, while achieving the "thrust" in the halfcourt - the lack of which lost the lakers the 3rd quarter last night, as Redick states here - what he's really talking about is the having the type of halfcourt offense that wears down the opponent and therefore zaps the opponent's capacity for offense, or thrust:
Including lies to explain why you cherry pick does not justify cherry picking. You deliberately left out 1993 because that was Pippen’s worst year, statistically.
As you yourself have said before, since you have to lie, you lost.
You used a period of 1991 to 1993 for Pippen, but everyone knows that the 91' regular season wasn't his prime yet, so comparing Pippen's pre-prime to his peak in 94' is unfair.
Otoh, comparing his peak without Jordan (94') to his peak with Jordan (92') makes perfect sense.. This shows that Pippen's peak raw production was higher alongside Jordan (PPG + APG) than on his own.. The 93' season simply reflects an entire cast that was beat-up and resting for the postseason run.
You also cannot address that Pippen's assists increased by 17%, while Wade's decreased by 54% alongside Lebron, and how Lebron's lowering of everyone's assists causes the team assist deficits that characterize every playoff loss of his career.
You used a period of 1991 to 1993 for Pippen, but everyone knows that the 91' regular season wasn't his prime yet, so comparing Pippen's pre-prime to his peak in 94' is unfair.
Scottie Pippen offensive BPM in ‘91 = 3.2
Scottie Pippen offensive BPM in ‘93 = 2.6
Scottie Pippen was statistically worse offensively in 1993. You left out 1993 in your previous posts, where you lied and cherry picked specific seasons. Yet you are talking about 1991 above, an entirely different year.
I included all 3 years of Pippen’s prime with Jordan in the first 3 peat. I included all 3 years of Pippen’s prime with Jordan in the second 3 peat. I included both of the years of Pippen’s prime without Jordan, when he was playing baseball. This is the full, relevant dataset. This is how you analyze data without cherry picking. This is how to do statistics without lying.
You have said in the past that if you lie, you must have lost. Was that projection, and does it apply here?
But none of that stuff should matter if opponents aren't bothering to try because of some honeymoon lack of motivation nonsense you made up.
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Clutch Points (last 5 within 5) for 2016 2nd Round:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch...
Clutch Points for 1994 2nd Round:
The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF just like 94' Bulls without MJ
Playoffs
16' WADE....... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' PIPPEN'.... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%
^^™ the difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does, while Pippen drove the Bulls downward and was borderline lottery in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat caliber
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Last year when LA visited Boston without AD and Lebron:
When you have an incredibly dumb theory like this (that teams could care 2 bird craps about playing the Bulls without the GOAT present), you should probably try to have evidence.
The 55 wins in the regular season fools new fans from 2025 into thinking the goat dynasty didn't fall off in 1994, but the playoffs and following season showed that it fell to 2nd Round loser and barely .500, respectively..
So that's your evidence, along with the common knowledge that teams take the night off when the opponent's stars are out - that's how Austin Reaves marched into Boston last year and knocked off the champs without AD and Lebron (see previous post above).. Pippen faced that all year in 94'.
Ultimately, MJ left the Bulls a goat dynasty but returned to a .500 ballclub with a downward trajectory.. He restored 3-peat caliber in his first full season back.
Bosh and Wade were injured in 2015, yet the Heat still barely missed the playoffs by 1/2 game, and then nearly made the 16' ECF with Wade healthy again and the star (see stats in previous post that compares fossil Wade's run in the 16' Playoffs to peak Pippen in the 94' Playoffs).
Meanwhile, the 2011 Cavs lost their entire starting 5 and a total of 52 ppg by losing Mo, Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas and Delonte, so it's clear that team-hoppers like lebron GUT teams and force them to start over...
Meanwhile, the 2019 Cavs were missing their 1st option Kevin Love, so that amounts to another gutting of a team by a LeTeamHopper.. He used up Love and AD's prime and then spit them out - and it must've been so unsatisfying - only 1 title each in 10 total seasons with them... Somehow this is perceived as goat caliber by many - it's called fraud.. Plain and simple.
Someone on here made a few comments about fallguy getting pissed off and deliberately injuring a teammate, back when he was a benchwarmer in college. Was there a post somewhere about that that I missed??
I didn't deliberately injure anyone, but Raja Bell's quadricep did run into my knee when he was trying to post me up and he was out for a week with a big bandage around his thigh.. I barely felt it but I knew that he was screwed because I felt him hit that hard part of my leg and bounced off like a rubber ball.. I think this is a preview of what would happen if he and I faced off in MMA... A 6'7" Jon Jones with heavy Jamaican bones sharp as knives on top of his ass.
Scottie Pippen offensive BPM in ‘91 = 3.2
Scottie Pippen offensive BPM in ‘93 = 2.6
Scottie Pippen was statistically worse offensively in 1993.
Now you're switching it to BPM, which is a defensive stat and then saying his offensive stats increased?
That's clear cut fraud, full stop, smh.... lol
Again, we've established that Pippen's peak PPG + APG was higher with Jordan (92') than without (94'), while a 12% decline alongside Jordan is seen in the down years in 93' from pursuing the 3-peat, or pre-prime year of 91', and old/banged-up years from 96-98'.
This 12% decline in scoring is the same as Wade's 12%, except that Jordan's superior off-ball skillset and chemistry increased Pippen's assists by 17%, while Wade's decreased by 54% - this lowering of everyone's assists alongside Lebron produced low assist teams that characterize every series loss of Lebron's playoff career.. carry on
Russell came before wilt ?
Wilt lost like 5 times vs him …being the incredibly scorers he is and yet got crush , why ?
The 60's was a different time - 2-pointer basketball!!!
So no one knows how to include great players like Wilt and Russell - the only way is to show respect for 11 chips/goat leader and then also Wilt's 50 ppg dominance by going in chronological order - this shows respect for history and they would agree with this ranking - Russell, Wilt, Kareem.
And aside from this, you have no issue with my rankings... Everyone else could carry the scoring load and win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player (although we disagree on Bird), and also everyone produces great chemistry (no ball-dominators).
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Clutch Points (last 5 within 5) for 2016 2nd Round:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch...
Clutch Points for 1994 2nd Round:
The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF just like 94' Bulls without MJ
Playoffs
16' WADE....... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' PIPPEN'.... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%
^^™ the difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does, while Pippen drove the Bulls downward and was borderline lottery in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat caliber
.
.
.
Last year when LA visited Boston without AD and Lebron:
When you have an incredibly dumb theory like this (that teams could care 2 bird craps about playing the Bulls without the GOAT present), you should probably try to have evidence.
The 55 wins in the regular season fools new fans from 2025 into thinking the goat dynasty didn't fall off in 1994, but the playoffs and following season showed that it fell to 2nd Round loser and barely .500, respectively..
So that's your evidence, along with the common knowledge that teams take the night off when the opponent's stars are out - that's how Austin Reaves marched into Boston last year and knocked off the champs without AD and Lebron (see previous post above).. Pippen faced that all year in 94'.
Ultimately, MJ left the Bulls a goat dynasty but returned to a .500 ballclub with a downward trajectory.. He restored 3-peat caliber in his first full season back.
Bosh and Wade were injured in 2015, yet the Heat still barely missed the playoffs by 1/2 game, and then nearly made the 16' ECF with Wade healthy again and the star (see stats in previous post that compares fossil Wade's run in the 16' Playoffs to peak Pippen in the 94' Playoffs).
Meanwhile, the 2011 Cavs lost their entire starting 5 and a total of 52 ppg by losing Mo, Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas and Delonte, so it's clear that team-hoppers like lebron GUT teams and force them to start over...
Meanwhile, the 2019 Cavs were missing their 1st option Kevin Love, so that amounts to another gutting of a team by a LeTeamHopper.. He used up Love and AD's prime and then spit them out - and it must've been so unsatisfying - only 1 title each in 10 total seasons with them... Somehow this is perceived as goat caliber by many - it's called fraud.. Plain and simple.
Now you're switching it to BPM, which is a defensive stat and then saying his offensive stats increased?
That's clear cut fraud, full stop, smh.... lol
There is offensive BPM and defensive BPM. I cited offensive BPM. Offensive BPM is an offensive statistic — it’s in the name. Proof here:
Explanation of BPM (both offensive and defensive) here:
Scottie Pippen’s offensive BPM numbers here, under “Advanced”:
Since we have proof that you are lying, and you have said in the past that if you lie, you must have lost, does that apply here?
There is offensive BPM and defensive BPM. I cited offensive BPM. Offensive BPM is an offensive statistic — it’s in the name. Proof here:
No ! -> because of the exception clause ……😀
Bear in mind that Scottie Pippen was a superior scorer and overall offensive player without Michael Jordan on the team:Scottie Pippen 1990-91 to 1992-93 (with Jordan)Average ppg = 19.13Average TS% = .542Average offensive BPM = 3.3Scottie Pippen 1993-94 and 1994-95 (no Jordan)Average ppg = 21.7Average TS% = .5515Average offensive BPM = 4.45Scottie Pippen 1995-96 to 1997-98 (with
This is my original post, and as you can see above, I’ve been using offensive BPM the entire time. You lied again when you said I “switched” to BPM. By your own rules, since you lied, you must have lost.
I got a question tho about the pro-pippen here .
Me I’m indifferent , pippen help greatly in some situation but cost probable championship in others cases too (ie:1990 ) .
Pippen end up being a good number 2 but far from one of the best ever shrug .
I can be wrong and I don’t really care , fwiw to me a healthy AD is superior to pippen .
Regardless, do people believing pippen being a franchise player would ever be able to reach the same peak if he would never team up with mj , being drafted elsewhere for example ?
Ps: it wouldn’t surprise me if pippen would of been one of the toughest « worker » in his era . Props to him for that .
Kyrie didn't play in the 2018 ECF, yet you guys worship Lebron for beating an injured team, so why doesn't Curry get credit for 2015 Finals?It's a clear double standard.... And it's because Lebron is a fraud that has been forced onto the public by an already-proven fraudulent media.Heck, Jameer Nelson was hurt in the 09' ECF, so Dwight had the injury excuse that the 15' Cavs or
I don’t worship LeBron in anything lol
Why curry would get credit beating LeBron without Kyrie ?
Is curry that weak lol ….
No double standards.
you named zero examples of sidekicks that averaged 27+ in the Finals, while Lebron has 3 examples in his career alone (1-2).
you named 4 examples of 26+ going back to the 60's, while Lebron has 4 examples in his career alone (2-2).
Check the stats again …
Kobe was 26.8
With Russel 27+ , twice ….
Yes I went back then because you have them in your top 2 and 3 ….
Probably could find other example but what’s the point ?
We talking top 10 shrug .
So again wilt and Russell get a pass but not Lebron and u blame others about double standard??? lol
Btw wilt got Jerry west over 27 -> and lost !
isn’t that even worst ?? !! Yes your number 3 ….????
At least Lebron won….
I got a question tho about the pro-pippen here .Me I’m indifferent , pippen help greatly in some situation but cost probable championship in others cases too (ie:1990 ) .Pippen end up being a good number 2 but far from one of the best ever shrug .I can be wrong and I don’t really care , fwiw to me a healthy AD is superior to pippen .Regardless, do people believin
I think a healthy AD at his best is better than Pippen — but he’s never healthy which is the problem. I take Pippen over AD for that reason.
I don’t think Pippen would have won 6 rings outside of Chicago, no. That required Phil Jackson and Jordan.
He would have had better offensive numbers in a lot of other places though, simply by virtue of being the first option. Or even the second option on a team without a player taking ~23+ shots a game.
Fallguy isn’t intelligent enough to understand this though, which is why he says Pippen is terrible, and has to lie by deleting his 1993 numbers with Jordan (who averaged almost 26 field goal attempts per game that year).
The 60's was a different time - 2-pointer basketball!!! So no one knows how to include great players like Wilt and Russell - the only way is to show respect for 11 chips/goat leader and then also Wilt's 50 ppg dominance by going in chronological order - this shows respect for history and they would agree with this ranking - Russell, Wilt, Kareem.
I actually do !
And Kareem did lead when exactly being a 1 carrying scoring load with a normal roaster again ?
I forgot ?
#4 in your top 10 right ?
Ah yes another exception ….no double standard .
I think a healthy AD at his best is better than Pippen — but he’s never healthy which is the problem. I take Pippen over AD for that reason.I don’t think Pippen would have won 6 rings outside of Chicago, no. That required Phil Jackson and Jordan.
- fair enough ( and I would too 😀).
But I was just trying to find a comparable player with pippen « value ».
Is AD a top 30 player ever ?
- logically it makes sense but then in prime pippen years , why it didn’t happened in 1994 and 1995 or (non prime?) 1999 and 2000 ?
Results suggest he couldn’t .
There is offensive BPM and defensive BPM. I cited offensive BPM. Offensive BPM is an offensive statistic — it’s in the name. Proof here:
Despite my misreading of your original post regarding offensive BPM, I'm glad I did because while reviewing the numbers again, it occurred to me that Pippen averaged 19 in 1998 and then 14 in 1999 without Jordan... Of course I'm sure you'll whine about context in this case, while ignoring it your own unfair comparison, i.e. your comparison of Pippen's peak without Jordan in 94' vs non-prime years with Jordan (91'), or down years while pursuing history (93').
So we can go by your logic and compare peak years to down years and therefore include the 98' vs 99' (which trumps your comparison), or we can compare apples to apples and contrast Pippen's peak without Jordan (94') to his peak with Jordan (92').. This shows that Pippen's raw PPG + APG was higher alongside Jordan in 92' compared to his peak in 94', while the lower usage from the 2nd option role slightly reduced his advanced box stats.
In contrast to Pippen's peak scoring capacity remaining stable alongside Jordan, while his assists increased by 17%, we see that Wade's his peak scoring declined alongside Lebron in 2011 by 15%, while his assists cratered as well by 54% - we know the lowering of Wade's assists is directly correlated with the increase in his assisted rate and spot-up role... The imposition of spot-up roles by Lebron and subsequent lowering of everyone's assists produced low assist teams that characterize every series loss of his playoff career.. carry on
