2nd flush on a heavily paired low board

Is there a bad beat or high hand promo. in the room?

BB having 7c6c makes a lot of sense pre+turn+river ... the main thing is if he'd check flop with it. But he might be planning to x/r anyway.
That also explains him being so excited to check turn that he forgot about you even though nothing had changed.

I think your river size is bad. You probably want to think about checking, and if you decide to bet it shouldn't be random half pot.

After the raise it looks pretty grim, even though the line looks weird ... but some people can spew raise river with worse, and forget that the SB who never plays hands is in this one. Given he likes to talk I might try and get him to say something.
Given he has bluffed rivers before I'm probably not folding without a lot of reasons, because he can easily have like Ac4x and decide we won't call.

u got like the third nuts (is this a term?????) . i would call (u had to compensate pf raise and some flop bets) so I think its a good price.

why would he call your turn and raise river? does he really have 33s?

You don't beat:
Quads (88s)
Full House (55s 44s 33s)
Ace high Flush (Ax c)

Your flush (check bet bet)

You beat:
Some meh straight
Sets
Rest of them pairs

Technically nowhere near the 3rd nuts. Technically, you also lose to 85/84/83, which are unlikely.

When you get raised, you may have the whatever nuts, but you can only beat a bluff. I might call too though.

I would 3bet pre

I would probably go bigger for value on the river, 50-60

As played, call the raise, you are good here 50% of the time easy

I agree, this is a leak in my game and I should 3b pre more often - my 3b range is terribly narrow. I didn't do it because I was on the SB but UTG+1 was a loose player.

To be honest I wasn't even aware as it was my second time playing in this specific cardroom and no one ever mentioned it but it seems they have a bad beat jackpot at quad Jacks at that time. Good to know for the future.

So my reasoning was - I have a decent hand and am mainly betting for value esp given V has been so passive throughout this hand. Because he hasn't shown any signs of strength I reckoned 1/2 pot would be what he'd be happy to pay with worse. Wouldn't checking be too conservative as he can have anything from 2p, trips, straights, worse flushes when it comes to me OTR?

I can see the merits of going a bit bigger - maybe 2/3 pot as oldbdub suggested - but I'd only consider checking if I knew V would take a stab at the pot, which wasn't too obvious given he can be behind most of the times and just wants to see a cheap showdown.

True it'd be nice to get him to talk and I should do it more in live. I'm just curious because I'd expect him to say something like "I have a strong hand" so how would this impact your decision making?

Given his quick turn check, and snap call of your bet, a lot of medium strength hands are unlikely. Maybe he can check 87 on the turn to see what happens, and then obviously call it HU ... but when you check the river does he check that back?

Even hands as bad as 77/66 that want to check but then decide to snap call because of live reasons (thinking you might be taking advantage of their check) ... they are at least as likely to decide you have a draw and randomly bet the river, when you check, than to call when you bet again.

I'm not even saying you have to check river ... but you should be thinking about his range, and it looks like it could be polarised to good draws and good value ... you beat some of the value, but they'll often bet anyway, and by betting you pretty much never get anything from the missed draws (unless they do something like this with the NFD, but you then have to call correctly).

You don't beat a _lot_ more value than say A8, although we'd expect some of that value to play differently it doesn't mean it will. And while his line is kind of weird, it's much more likely for people to play Ac9c this way than Jc9c. And it's almost normal for 7c6c or 88, where are praying other people put money in for them and then are forced to on the last action.

Even with experience it can sometimes not help much even when they do say something ... but it's very hard to get experience if you don't try 😀

You'll also be surprised the number of times someone will say something like "I've basically got the nuts" or "If you're even thinking about it you should fold" and they are just being honest.

Eventually you want to end up thinking about combos. you are ahead of and behind, but you'll very quickly want to distinguish between different ranks of flushes and full houses. Also remember that straight flushes are possible.

So on: 8♦5♣4♣ 8♣ 3♥ the simple view would be:

7♣6♣
88
85
84
83
55
44
33
A♣*♣
K♣Q♣ <- you are here, and nobody would say this is the third nuts.

...and yes, you can simplify and say there are no 33 combos. ... but I would not entirely remove anything else.

You are getting 2.9-1, so you need to be good about 27% of the time, so it might be a call. It is unlikely you are good half the time though.

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