Queens, blackjack, a 5 bet, and table talk.
I’m bored at work stuck in a tornado warning as I type this.
1-2 nl 9 handed.
Hero about $400. BB in a button str hand
V1 Loose sticky a lil maniacal. Just came from the blackjack tables where he claims he won $4k. He said he’s playing poker just for fun. UTG
V2 same Villain from last two threads. Plays nos significant rule on this hand other than button straddling and donating.
Hero with pocket queens raises to $15
V1 3! To $30.
BU calls.
Hero 4bets to $130. First ever 4bet with queens. Tanks before making decision and sizing.
V1 raises to $330.
V2 BU first time folding
Hero?
I’ve never faced a 5 bet before. I’ve only seen one 4 bet. The min raise had me confused. And now a big raise for stacks. As I was thinking V1 asks “do you have a big pair?”.
My first thought was to call now if he was afraid of a pair. But was he afraid. Was he hoping I had a calling hand. Did he have kings and was afraid of aces?
8 Replies
Why didn't he just shove / put you all in? Weird to leave $70 behind, but whatever.
Just go with your gut and shove or fold -- not much else you can do.
Agree with Java. RFI a touch bigger if a straddle to 5. I'd do 20. I like the 1/3 starting stack 4! Makes it look like there's FE. You got what you wanted, and it is a silly 5! sizing, agreed. With V's image, happy taking a likely flip for 200 bb/80 straddles. Or V could be doing this with air or some pretty broadway hand. Ask if they want to run it twice.
So... I tend to disregard what people say at the table, when they say it loud enough for all to hear. Just because he's talking fishy doesn't mean he is fishy. Empty cans make the most noise, and all that.
That said, I do believe someone with a fistful of cash from another game is likely to be in a pro-gambling mood, and giving looser action. He might be BS'ing about his approach to poker, but doubtful he'd bother to concoct a story about big wins at blackjack just to enhance his image as an action player.
The min-click 3B next to act in EP is always interesting, in that I always read it as polar, though I'm not sure it really is. Like, would we ever do that with AA/KK? Logically, it seems more likely to be JJ/QQ/AK, or maybe even 77-TT, and if our man is lubricated (with booze or from a recent windfall), possibly a lot worse.
I don't mind the 4B at all. No idea what size makes the most sense over a min-click, when we don't know much about V. If we're hoping to induce him to spaz jam, or if we're ever thinking of folding if he does, I think we could go a tad smaller, like $100-$120.
I don't know if this would make any sense at all, but I also wonder if min-clicking it back accomplishes anything. Probably not.
As played, and with our read, I don't think we can or should ever fold, so just stick the rest in and wait to see what happens.
I wouldn't pay any attention to his table talk while you're thinking. But honestly, we shouldn't be thinking about this at all, once we 4B to more than 30% of our stack. We're never folding now. If he has us beat or sucks out, tap the table and reload.
Nh, gg wrote
Agree with Java. RFI a touch bigger if a straddle to 5. I'd do 20. I like the 1/3 starting stack 4! Makes it look like there's FE. You got what you wanted, and it is a silly 5! sizing, agreed. With V's image, happy taking a likely flip for 200 bb/80 straddles. Or V could be doing this with air or some pretty broadway hand. Ask if they want to run it twice.
What is "FE"?
docvail wrote
So... I tend to disregard what people say at the table, when they say it loud enough for all to hear. Just because he's talking fishy doesn't mean he is fishy. Empty cans make the most noise, and all that.
That said, I do believe someone with a fistful of cash from another game is likely to be in a pro-gambling mood, and giving looser action. He might be BS'ing about his approach to poker, but doubtful he'd bother to concoct a story about big wins at blackjack just to enhance his image as an action player.
The min-click 3B next to act in EP is always interesting, in that I always read it as polar, though I'm not sure it really is. Like, would we ever do that with AA/KK? Logically, it seems more likely to be JJ/QQ/AK, or maybe even 77-TT, and if our man is lubricated (with booze or from a recent windfall), possibly a lot worse.
I don't mind the 4B at all. No idea what size makes the most sense over a min-click, when we don't know much about V. If we're hoping to induce him to spaz jam, or if we're ever thinking of folding if he does, I think we could go a tad smaller, like $100-$120.
I don't know if this would make any sense at all, but I also wonder if min-clicking it back accomplishes anything. Probably not.
As played, and with our read, I don't think we can or should ever fold, so just stick the rest in and wait to see what happens.
I wouldn't pay any attention to his table talk while you're thinking. But honestly, we shouldn't be thinking about this at all, once we 4B to more than 30% of our stack. We're never folding now. If he has us beat or sucks out, tap the table and reload.
My thinking on the 4bet was to pick a sizing that put pressure on my opponents, and was small enough that I could still dump my hand to a raise. Was I correct to try this? Was my sizing wrong? Nobody mentioned calling. Is this worse than 4beting? When would it be correct? Set mining when I'm confident I'm behind, Like maybe to a reg or an OMC?
OTTH
Spoiler
Hero folds. Villain doesn't show, but later says he had Queens. I too admitted I had Queens, but wished I would have lied or stayed silent instead. I blurted out before thinking about what I was saying.
FE = Fold Equity. I think raising to a size roughly 30% to 1/3 of your stack, versus a 5x 4! size (3x the original raise, +1 for each caller, and +1 for OOP; albeit 4! and such are often smaller), makes it look like you can fold to a larger raise.
Where instead if you stick half your stack in, you're not folding. Or at least you shouldn't be expected to.
5x here would be 150, so not much of a difference from 130. 100-110 would be more of a '4!, but you can fold to a 5!,' looking size.
Edit, to be clear, I'm doing this to induce a raise. I'm not folding QQ pf for 80 straddles, unless V is >70 and actually drinking the swill that passes for poker club coffee. I'm expecting AK to constitute the majority of V's range, and that's fine. /edit.
Bummer you folded. It'd be 270 (because you're going to go all in vs only calling 200 more) to win a potential pot of 400 + 400 + 30, or 32.5%. If you range V to KK+, AK, we have it. If you range them to KK+, AKs, we don't. It's 80 straddles though, and I think people will be wider getting it in than KK/AKs.
You put in 130, you only had 400 total. 130/400 = 32.5% of your stack.
Folding is negative ev. You can literally jam with literally any two cards now.
If you ever wanted to fold. Try something like 25% as a 4bet which is 100$.
Is the button straddle $4 or $5?
You are playing 80 - 100bb preflop with the straddle. I am never folding QQ in this setup, versus these jokers, for <100bb. I might even consider 4bet shoving over taking the $130 size. When you shove here, fish will always put you on AK and will call with basically any pair.
