LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

Curious what people think the reason is that Lebron quit for the last 3 games of the 11' Finals... We know why he quit in 2010 (personal reasons), so we know the inclination and pattern was there, but the reason for quitting was different in 2011 and I'm wondering what people think that reason was.

I think it was because it dawned on Lebron during the Finals that he wasn't as dominant as Wade at that time versus the Mavs or even the Celtics, so he essentially pouted and quit.. He would rather lose than have the masses know that he was carried and not the best player on his team.. Of course we know that he was still carried in other series even though the masses never really realized it (20' WCF, 11' ECSF, 16' 1st Round, 14' ECF, and many more).

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EFFICIENCY AT HIGH VOLUME - PLAYERS WITH 25 FGA AND 45% FG:

Regular Season:

Michael Jordan....................... 1987, 1993
Rick Barry.................................1967, 1975
Bob McAdoo........................... 1975
George Gervin........................ 1982
Kobe Bryant............................ 2006
Elgin Baylor............................. 1963
Tiny Archibald........................ 1973
Dominique.............................. 1988


Playoffs (10 game min):

*Michael Jordan......................1988, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Elgin Baylor............................. 1960, 1961, 1968
Bob McAdoo........................... 1974, 1975
George Gervin........................ 1975, 1982
Jerry West................................ 1966
Rick Barry................................. 1977
Hakeem Olajuwon.................. 1995
Kobe Bryant............................ .2007
Dominique............................... 1988
Allen Iverson............................ 2005
Kareem Jabbar......................... 1975

Hakeem scared to jump with MJ and visibly COWERED every time:

MJ has a bunch of tip dunks on Hakeem too:

Even a drop-step:

So you saying bulls couldn’t win as soon the system were Install in 1990 even with the goat and it’s normal,
Then having a bunch of new players , without mj on top of that , isn’t normal pippen failed to win a title or confirming pippen did poorly with 55 win ?
lol I guess you don’t see the confusion in this ?

Btw explain something to me , why 1995 was even worst since all those new players would if played much better in that system with a year more of experience and knowing each other better ?

Yup keep believing it’s the system lol
Yes we know FG -> results do not matter .
Nice religion you got there , sadly it will die with you because you don’t seem to have many followers believing in you and I must say , it’s a good thing .

Resume : the system is the key !
Mj couldn’t win title first year implementation of “the great winning 3 peat system” but won 55 wins it’s ok , mj just the goat after all.

Pippen a very bad players , couldn’t win the title and only win 55 games too with a lot of new players and still manage to make 55 wins without the goat !!!
Nah pippen suck lol …

Was fun talking to you FG .
But it gets boring to always rationalize contradiction over contradiction non stop .
Yes you won -> 2+2= 5
Good luck to you .

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List of players that MJ and Lebron faced

1) SHAQ

Top Lebron moments:

* 2004-2006 were the only years of Lebron's career where Shaq had some prime left and Lebron finished behind Shaq in MVP voting during those years, and lost the conference to him as well (2005 and 2006).. Lebron never dunked on him.


Top Jordan moments:

* Jordan won MVP over prime Shaq in 1996 and 1998 and swept Shaq in 1996 ECF.. He also dunked on him, shown here.

2. KOBE:

Top Lebron moments:

- Lebron watched Kobe win more championships during the time that both were in their prime, and also watched Kobe save the team in the 2008 Olympics.

- He missed the much-anticipated, Kobe/Lebron matchup in 2009 and 2010 Finals, because his top-seeded team underachieved by losing to lower seeds in earlier rounds.


Top Jordan moments:

- MJ dunked on Kobe in their first ever possession vs. each other, shown here

- MJ showed his protege how it's done by hitting the game-winner in the first game of the 1997 Finals, after Kobe had airballed 4 straight game-winner attempts against the same team earlier in the playoffs.

- MJ passed the torch to his protoge in the 1998 all-star game by scoring on him at will (5 times in head-to-head possessions, shown here).

3. DUNCAN

[Top Lebron moments:

- Lebron missed the infamous game-tying 3-pointer and needed Ray Allen to save him


Top Jordan moments:

- Jordan MADE his game-tying 3-pointer from the exact same spot during his first meeting with Duncan/Popovich in 1998 (the shot is shown here)... Then he dominated the OT, including 2 dunks over Duncan, shown here..

Later in that 1998 season, Jordan won the Finals against the team (Jazz) that destroyed Duncan's Spurs in WCF 2nd Round (Duncan/Robinson/Popovich's Spurs won 56 games in RS).

4. GARNETT:

Top Lebron moments:

- Lebron got his **** pushed in during 2008 and 2010 ECSF


Top Jordan moments:

- Jordan schooled Garnett in the 1998 all-star game (shown here) and during the regular season (shown here, hereand here).

- The only time where MJ and Garnett were matched up defensively for an entire game was during a 2002 contest - both were matched up at SF, and 38-year old Jordan scored 35 on Garnett in every way imagineable, including various blow-by dunks and layups, shown here

5. SHAWN MARION:

Top Lebron moments:

- Lebron got locked down by OLD Shawn Marion during the 2011 Finals, which was one of the greatest chokes ever by a star in the Finals.


Top Jordan moments:

- 38-year old Jordan hit the game-winner in PRIME Shawn Marion's face during a contest in 2002 (shown here), and then destroyed him for 41 points in another contest (shown here).

6. 2003-2004 seasons

2003 JORDAN..... 19.3 PER.. 20.0 ppg.. 44.5 fg
2004 LEBRON..... 18.3 PER.. 20.9 ppg.. 41.7 fg

Here's Brendan Haywood saying that Lebron was crying about guys trying to hurt him and then Brendan said that MJ got fouled way worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfFiMC6c...

And this is what I'm saying - guys often don't play hard against Lebron anymore, and it started with the "decision" to set the league up so he can win some titles and avoid career embarrassment

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1999 KUKOC......... 18.8... 7.0... 5.3... 2.8 TO's... 18.6 PER... 3.0 BPM... 0.082 WS/48... 2.1 VORP
1990 PIPPEN'........ 16.3... 6.7... 5.4... 3.4 TO's... 16.3 PER... 1.8 BPM... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP

So Pippen had his 2nd option in 1994 and also the closer that MJ never had, while also having upgraded talent at every other roster spot (Longley, Kerr, Harper, Perdue, etc).. So Pippen had a better and deeper cast than MJ ever had, yet he could only produce a 2nd Round loser and barely .500 in 1995, while MJ produced the goat dynasty and 2 three-peats.

The Bulls had a 3-peat offense mastered by 1994, due to MJ's off-ball game allowing it to run in the first place and grow into the 3-peat-caliber by 94'... So Pippen was gifted a fully-grown system and franchise in 1994, while Love and Bosh were building their franchises from scratch.

Love and Bosh were real franchise players by virtue of having the elite scoring ability required to add good scorers beneath them to build a sufficiently-talented team... This contrasts with a Pippen-led team like the 94' Bulls, which can't have a 2nd scoring option because they would replace Pippen as 1st option - Steve Smith and Rasheed Wallace were easily above Pippen on the 2000 Blazers, while 36-year old Barkley and Hakeem were the top options in Houston.

Infact, Kukoc also led Pippen in 4th quarter scoring for the entire 98' Playoffs and was preferred in the clutch, so someone as weak as Kukoc replaced Pippen as the preferred option... Let that sink in - Pippen simply wasn't a franchise player and he proved this by cratering the goat dynasty to barely .500 in 95' instead of growing a franchise like a real franchise player does... He simply lacks the scoring ability to provide a team with good talent capacity, i.e. the ability to add good scorers and talent beneath him.

Btw, Kukoc averaged 19 ppg and 5 APG in 1999 and was clearly better than 1990 Pippen across the board (see stats above), which means that Pippen already had his 2nd option scorer in 94' and upgraded talent at every other spot (Longley, Harper, Kerr, etc)... So Pippen had a better cast than Jordan ever had, yet he only produced a 2nd Round team and barely .500 the following season, while MJ developed the goat dynasty and 2 three-peats... Kukoc was also the closer that MJ never had by winning 5 games at the buzzer for Pippen in 94', which includes the famous winner in the playoffs against the Knicks (where Pippen sat out the game).

Maybe they cowered in the face of 3 franchise players from 3 different teams teaming up on the same team.

But certainly when Wade and Lebron were out, it was a letdown game for the opponent where the opponent usually underperformed their normal performance.. This is bball 101 and letdown games are a part of basketball.. Pippen was fortunate to benefit from this "surprise factor" and honeymoon period for the 94' season until teams were forced to wake up in the playoffs and following season.

And again, the 99' Bulls didn't have a coach running the triangle, or a core with any experience running the triangle, let alone developing to a 3-peat level like the 94' team had.... This 3-peat mastery of the triangle provided the chemistry in 1994 to offset the roster's league-worst talent, i.e. the only roster without a 2nd scorer in the starting lineup.

1999 KUKOC......... 18.8... 7.0... 5.3... 2.8 TO's... 18.6 PER... 3.0 BPM... 0.082 WS/48... 2.1 VORP
1990 PIPPEN'........ 16.3... 6.7... 5.4... 3.4 TO's... 16.3 PER... 1.8 BPM... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP

So Pippen had his 2nd option in 1994 and also the closer that MJ never had, while also having upgraded talent at every other roster spot (Longley, Kerr, Harper, Perdue, etc).. So Pippen had a better and deeper cast than MJ ever had, yet he could only produce a 2nd Round loser and barely .500 in 1995, while MJ produced the goat dynasty and 2 three-peats.

I don't consider it success to be gifted a fully-developed system and franchise that the player didn't have to build, and then have a honeymoon period against sleeping opponents (before collapsing when sh*t hits the fan in the playoffs and following season).

Again, not impressive, and it's also a very predictable path and team downfall for a non-franchise player trying to play the franchise player role.

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Disqualifying factors for GOAT:

* 22 on 35%

* 26 on 35%

* Upset loss to 09' Magic

* Upset loss to 10' Celtics

* Goat choke in 2011 Finals

* Record loss in 2014 Finals

* Record loss in 2017 Finals

* Record loss in 2018 Finals

* Lottery during prime in 2019

* Lottery with all-star teammates in 2022

* turns everyone into spot-up shooter

* can't develop young players

* prevents elite roster construction (turns everyone into spot-up shooter)

* lowers everyone's assists

* low assist teams

* bad at ball movement and chemistry

* long list of teammates cratering alongside him

* lottery record on the championship level (22-33)

* -86 on the championship level

* can't win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player

* 22 years of needing more help

* #1 all-time in turnovers and missed shots

* losing record with preseason favorites (3-4)

* losing record with Finals teams (4-6)

* losing record with all-star teammates (4-7)

* losing record with 1 or 2 seeds (4-5)

* record 3 straight upset losses (09-11')

* horrific efficiency in clutch and game-winners

* no game-winners in Finals (0-7)

* never won 60 games in 6 tries with AD

* won 60 games once in 7 seasons with 2 all-stars from 11' to 17'

* never produced a great team

* can't carry the star category of scoring vs top teams, so he needs more star help (too ball-dominant at high-scoring levels)

* can't defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load on championship level)

* can't carry weak help over top teams (can't beat top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from sidekick)

* many weaknesses like turnovers, offensive rebounds, clutch efficiency, ball-dominance, mid-range

* needs 1st options and franchise players to play 2nd and 3rd option, i.e. cannot win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player

GOAT things:

* 2 three-peats in 3-pointer basketball

* 6 rings as the best player (twice as many as anyone else in 3-pointer history)

* didn't lose 3 straight games for 9 seasons from 1990 through 1998 (RS and PO)

* #1 all-time among completed careers for PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, and PPG

* 5 more ppg than everyone else in playoff history (50 game min)

* 70 wins + title

* 4 MVP's that included titles (1 included DPOY)

* the only title in history with only 2 guys in double figures for the playoff run (1997)

* 63 points playoff record

* 10 scoring titles

* MVP + DPOY season

* 2nd player with 3000 points in a season while simultaneously being the 1st with 200 steals and 100 blocks

* The only player with MVP + scoring title + 1st team defense + title (4 times)

* the only player to average 30/5/5 for their regular season or playoff career

* much more
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Pippen wasn't good enough to build his own team and was handed a fully-developed system and great franchise... He cratered this system to barely .500 because he isn't a real franchise player that builds a team from scratch.

Pippen also can't score outside the system, while Kukoc averaged 19/7/5 outside the system, so Pippen had a better scoring teammate (Kukoc) than MJ (Pippen).. Kukoc was the closer that MJ never had.. You have no answer for this.

So Pippen had a better cast but only produced a 2nd Round team that "grew" to barely.500, while MJ produced the goat dynasty with less scoring hep.

Nobody did that.

The fact that you guys have to lie about what I say and can't argue against the points actually being made confirms that you're wrong.

I compared Kukoc to 1990 Pippen to show that Kukoc was far superior to 1990 Pippen, which means that Pippen had the same thing in 1994 that Jordan had in 1990... Yet he couldn't develop a conference finals team, let alone the GOAT dynasty like MJ did.

The entire core remained, while every other spot was upgraded - this included a better scorer than Pippen that could average 19/7/5 outside the system and "close" games (Kukoc), while Pippen can't average 15 outside the system, or close games.

And 55 wins could mean the goat dynasty (1993), or 2nd Round trash team (1994), so 55 wins is just the regular season and can mean the team is good or bad.

Most importantly, Jordan built the Bulls into the goat dynasty, so Pippen was gifted 55-win chemistry and know-how - he didn't build a 55-win team from scratch like a true franchise player and actually destroyed the Bulls to borderline .500 in 95'... So Jordan lifted a .500 team to 3-peat, not a 55-win team... It was also a paper tiger version of 55 wins due to sleeping opponents and honeymoon period of zero expectation, so they weren't a real 50-win team that wins 50 every year.... Again, the "real" Bulls without MJ in 95' were barely .500 and heading nowhere before MJ lifted them to 3-peat again.

It's a clear pattern of 3-peating with MJ and then getting nowhere without him, and then 3-peating again with him, aka GOAT.

Luka's stats with Lebron........... 25.8..... 7.9.... 7.6

Luka's stats w/out Lebron........ 30.2... 10.2.... 8.8

Luka joins Bosh, Love, Westbrook, Hughes, Ingram, Jamison and more teammates that cratered and were underwhelming alongside Lebron.. This latest cratering of Luka freiking Doncic proves that Lebron can't get the most out of teammates and his skillset of dominating the ball and imposing spot-up roles has bad chemistry with everyone.

Lebron is letting Luka take the lead and Luka is wetting the bed.

Nonsense.

Time of possession vs Warriors last night:

Lebron..... 5.4 minutes
Luka......... 4.7 minutes

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?LastNGames=1&dir=D&sort=TIME_OF_POSS

NBA

Players Touches | Stats | NBA.com

Btw, I have statistically-deduced that the Lakers are about to get completely smashed in the playoffs.

Let me tell you how I figured this out, so you can shovel your money against them.

In the last game against the Warriors, 100% of Lebron's threes were assisted by teammates, and threes constituted more than half his shots... Meanwhile, only 40% of his 2-pointers were assisted, so he's ball-dominant on 2's (suboptimal) and relying on being a spot-up 3-point shooter for the rest of his offense (not elite/reliable in this role).

So the 2 underlined ways that he's getting offense aren't a winning formula, while Luka is assisted on only 16% of his shots, so basically none of his 2's or 3's - this level of ball-dominance alone has never won, and the aforementioned suboptimal offense from Lebron will only exacerbate the inferior brand of ball issue that the Lakers are about to face in these playoffs.. They will get swept by Nuggets or OKC, and quite possibly by the #9 player in my all-time rankings (Curry).

Btw, Lebron's 2-pointers that were mostly unassisted occurred in the halfcourt, since only 12% of his points came in transition.. So it's halfcourt ball-dominance from Lebron and halfcourt ball-dominance from Luka... And Lebron's ball-dominance on 2's is so severe that his hold-time actually exceeds Luka's despite half is shots being assisted threes... These guys are a joke and clown show.

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Guys that enjoyed top 15 players at 3rd option (3-pointer history)*:

- Kareem (once)
- Lebron (twice)

* players that most people believed were top 15 players (so an argument doesn't need to be made like it might for say, Austin Reaves or Buck Williams)

Anyone else?

Uh, quick question... When Lebron loses catastrophically again in these playoffs despite the better roster (Luka > Butler, Murray or Williams), and when the #9 or #10 guy in my all-time rankings prevail (Curry or Jokic), will I get apologies for being criticized despite additional proof confirming my claims?... Or will the charade continue where we ignore 23 years of ball-dominators perennially-losing and underwhelming with the best casts in the league, while great jumpshooters or bigs produce all the best teams and title frequencies (thus justifying my rankings further)?.. Carry on.. I've lapped this thread with win after win and correct prognostication after correct prognostication... The top 10 all-time is set - it's the best off-ball players ever by virtue of producing all the best chemistry and teams ever.

When you're the only one predicting something correctly and saying something will happen, it must seem like you made it happen when it actually happens... I can assure you that it isn't me though, smh lol - ball movement is just a better way to play that wins more.. So it's bball 101, not me... Lebron hasn't done it for his entire career, so he's completely lost now and has no clue how to have the league's best team despite hand-picking the league's best roster.

[QUOTE=DisillusionedFraudVictim]

Pippen was done by the time he got to Houston.

[/QUOTE]

No one thought that, which is why he was signed to the historic contract... Unfortunately, his horrific ability outside the system made the Rockets give him away for nothing.. So the market confirms what I'm saying, and rejects your revisionist history that Pippen was "done".

The expectation was that Pippen would average 20 ppg just like he did a few months prior during his 6th title season... Unfortunately, it's well-documented that the Rockets were shocked at how bad he was (system player), so they traded him for literally nothing.

So he went from a historic contract expectation, to worthless outside the system... Again, this is the market's determination, not my opinion, or your revisionist history that Pippen was considered "done"... Again, this is false - he was considered a historic acquisition, which is why he got the historic contract, but his horrific ability outside the system made him worthless and given away for nothing.. He was worse than Jeff Green and not even a 15 ppg player outside the system.

A historic contract in 1999 was the market's determination that Pippen was a historic acquisition by the Rockets with big expectations, but his horrific ability outside the system made him worthless and given away for nothing... So the market determined that he was nowhere near expectations and a worthless player - he was worse than Jeff Green outside the system and not even a 15 ppg player, or a 2nd option.

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The system that Pippen grew up in (system player):

1998 Kukoc....... 13 ppg.... 17.3 PER... 3.3 BPM... 3.0 VORP.
1998 Pippen...... 19 ppg.... 20.4 PER... 5.0 BPM... 2.9 VORP


No system (true scoring ability):

1999 Kukoc....... 19 ppg.... 18.6 PER... 3.0 BPM... 2.1 VORP
1999 Pippen...... 14 ppg.... 16.8 PER... 2.5 BPM... 2.3 VORP

* Kukoc also led the Bulls in BPM for the 94' Playoffs and was chosen to take the game-winner instead of Pippen on 5 different occasions during 1994 alone... Pippen also averaged 3.0 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 1994 2nd Round, so Kukoc was almost certainly the one carrying the Bulls in those 4th quarters.

[QUOTE=FraudVictim]

55 wins no context bs

[/quote]

Aside from 1994, 55 wins has never been achieved by a lengthy development of the goat dynasty and 3-peat chemistry, as required to win with the weakest roster in the league, i.e. the only starting lineup without a 2nd scoring option.

So it wasn't a "real" 55 win team that was built from scratch and could win 50 every year, or even more than once.

The Bulls were also the biggest-ever "letdown" game on the schedule of all-time, so they faced sleeping opponents for 82 games until the playoffs when they were dismissed in the 2nd Round.. Then the "real" Bulls without MJ were barely .500 the following year once the honeymoon period of zero expectation was gone... The cratering of the goat dynasty to barely .500 is the biggest drop-off ever.

The Bulls also added a better scorer than Pippen and the closer that MJ never had in 1994 that could average 19/7/5 outside the system (Kukoc), and who led the Bulls in BPM for the 94' Playoffs... Kukoc was also chosen over Pippen to take the game winner 5 times during 1994 alone and his stats demolish Pippen in 1999 outside the system that Pippen grew up in.... He was also 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring for the 98' Playoffs, so it's clear that Kukoc was the preferred "go-to" option and closer over Pippen.. Accordingly, since any scorer will replace Pippen as the preferred option, no Pippen-led team can have a 2nd-scoring option in the starting lineup (like we saw in 1994) and therefore needs 3-peat chemistry to keep their head above water.

[QUOTE=FraudVictim]

Both the Cavs and Heat went from title contenders to lottery without Lebron

[/QUOTE]

Lebron left the Cavs and Heat as 2nd Round or record losers, so he didn't leave them with the 3-peat chemistry required to keep their head above water and at least PUT OFF the inevitable embarrassment that the Bulls had in the playoffs and 95' season.

And the 2011 Cavs lost their entire team to injury or trade, such as Shaq, Zydrunas, Varejao, Mo, and Delonte (52 ppg), so it's a complete lie to say they fell to lottery without just Lebron..... And the 2015 Heat were injured but nearly made the 16' ECF.

We all forget that Lebron needed the East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen just to make his first playoffs in 2006... MJ would 3-peat with that, but instead we all pretended to be impressed when Lebron made 1 flukey Finals like other 1-star teams were doing, and then averaged 22 on 35% with 6 TO's per game (the worst anyone ever played).

If I could pick any player drafted after 2000 to build around, LeBron's not even my first pick.

I'd take Jokic.

Crazy that he was a #41 pick. He's still grossly underrated. He maybe should have won 5 straight MVP's after this year and any modern player you can say that about is a very legit all time inner circle great.

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There's a strong correlation between a player's athletic decline and their dunk frequency declining:

PIPPEN





https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

Pippen missed half the season in 98' from ailments that he had in 96' and 97', so the dunk stats show that he was more athletic in Houston with higher dunk frequency of 5.6%, compared to 4.8% for the injured seasons of 97' and 98'... In addition to restored health and athletic bounce in Houston, his quickness and All-defense continued as well.. The only thing missing was his all-star offense because he no longer had the system that he grew up in to get 15 ppg of transition or flow points... So there's no need to make excuses for Pippen not living up to his historic contract in 99', or his value being reduced to rubble when he was traded for nothing - the market correction was needed because the still-athletic Pippen wasn't even 2nd option over the #49 and 60 scorers in the league in 2000 (Steve Smith, Rasheed), or 36-year Hakeem/Barkley (19th and 39th).

People forget that Jordan won 55 games in 1990 because he was building dynasty chemistry and culture, while Pippen won 55 because he was handed those things... Aside from 1994, 55 wins has never been achieved by a lengthy development of the goat dynasty and 3-peat chemistry, so it wasn't a "real" 55 win team and the biggest example ever of an inflated regular season record... No one was surprised when they cratered in the playoffs and were barely .500 the following season - the only surprise was that they didn't crash right away... Dynasty culture briefly sustained them during a honeymoon period of no expectation, while they were also the letdown game on everyone's schedule for 82 games - letdown games are a BIG part of pro basketball and the family of many opponents cancelled their trips to watch the games when the GOAT suddenly retired... So there's never been a situation where opponents saw the biggest game of their life turn into the smallest or least important game.

The system that Pippen grew up in:

1998 Kukoc....... 13 ppg.... 17.3 PER... 3.3 BPM... 3.0 VORP.
1998 Pippen...... 19 ppg.... 20.4 PER... 5.0 BPM... 2.9 VORP


No system (true scoring ability):

1999 Kuko......... 19 ppg.... 18.6 PER... 3.0 BPM... 2.1 VORP
1999 Pippen...... 14 ppg.... 16.8 PER... 2.5 BPM... 2.3 VORP

Kukoc also led the Bulls in BPM for the 94' Playoffs and was chosen to take the game-winner instead of Pippen on 5 different occasions during 1994 alone... Pippen also averaged 3.0 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 1994 2nd Round, so Kukoc was almost certainly carrying the Bulls in those 4th quarters... Kukoc was also 2nd on the Bulls in 4th quarter scoring in the 98' Playoffs, so all of this proves that it took a scorer as weak as Kukoc to replace Pippen as the preferred option... Steve Smith, Rasheed Wallace or fossil Barkley/Hakeem were higher options over Pippen as well.... Unlike Kukoc's pure shooting, Pippen only fit alongside the goat scorer (MJ) because he told Rachel Nichols that his failure in Houston stemmed from his inability to provide the spacing that bigs like Hakeem/Barkley need (here).

To summarize, Pippen was gifted a better scorer than himself that could average 19/7/5 outside the system and be the closer that MJ never had (Kukoc).. The Bulls also upgraded every other position like Harper, Kerr, Longley, etc, so this was a better cast than MJ ever had... Pippen also had fully-developed dynasty culture and 3-peat system (the team wasn't in development stages), yet he still cratered the goat dynasty to barely .500 in less than 18 months and begged for MJ to return.