Top set on semi wet board

Fold pre. Having discipline in these games is where you make your money.

Everyone thinks PLO is a postflop game and that cannot be farther from the truth. The biggest edge, especially live, is a properly cultivated preflop range.

That said, I don’t like just calling the flop. It’s rainbow and you want to isolate the short stack and kick out the higher stack. You have enough with the 98 on a rainbow board to play for stacks with the shorter villain.

As played though you got exactly what you wanted, the results just weren’t in your favor. Can’t be too mad since this is how you wanted the hand to play out minus the results.

I always tell my guys to ask themselves, could this entire hand be solved by “fold pre”. If so, it’s not really a beat.

Folding because this hand just isn’t good enough. Middle sets are even worse in 5 card and by just calling you are only hoping to flop top set on a dry board. By just calling as well we almost guarantee a multi-way scenario and without a high suit we are playing “no set no bet”.

If we do play this hand I’d rather 3b to iso the short stack and get it in. As we should have enough equity headsup

Ah, OK. I would 3bet, too. Thought fold was a bit tight, though, especially with position and only SB and BB behind us. I don't mind letting in described BB 😉

I think fastplaying the flop is better

I thought you were making a joke (with folding pre), but I see now you’re actually serious about that.

Don’t have a 5 card solver subscription, but just cannot get myself to think this can be correct … I mean, this is a double pair single suited somewhat connected hand in position on the button … how can this ever be a fold pre to a single open raise???

King hi suit variations are ok.

This is a 9 hi suit but otherwise rainbow hand and the 8s just suck

Remember in PLO5 there are exponentially more starting hands so we get to be, and have to be, more selective of the combos we hold. It’s very possible the same exact hand is both folding, calling, and raising in equilibrium entirely based on the suit composition.

So this hand is playable with the K hi suit but a fold with the 9 hi

everything you say is of course correct (regarding specific hand strength etc.), but i'd put this in my bucket of "adjustment in live play vs. online gto approach".

1. sure, king high suit is better, but we can only play what we got, and in this case i'd take the lower suit as potential blockers
2. it's still a 2 pair hand, and it's also somewhat connected
3. we are deep, with a known fish at the table who's also deep
4. it's a single 3,5BB open raise, so my call will very likely bring the BB into the pot also

nope, not folding this hand pre.

I agree Pokerbros_Player -- I'm definitely not folding pre.

Folding this pre sounds insane - you're OTB with 160 bb effective, a top 15% or so hand (I think), and this hand is very easy to play postflop. You're really just looking to make a set or get out - a lot of times you'll have top set, and not having a flush draw might be a good thing in the sense that you're never chasing an inferior draw. Furthermore the BB is a noted fish and covers you - I'd want to be playing very wide IP against a guy like this.

In equilibrium calling is a losing play.

If you think the whales are losing more post flop than you are losing by calling preflop then you can absolutely make a deviation.

Just make sure we understand the equilibrium, the exploit, and why the exploit is the exploit.

I prefer hands with as little suitedness as possible. I go out of my way to play badugis in 4-card Omaha. It makes the game so much easier to play, I'm never drawing to a weak flush!

I don't like weak flushes either in the typical loose games I play in. That said if your hand has other strong properties adding suitedness can be looked at as blocking the nut flush draw from coming in.

I agree as well. Folding this hand pre is a big mistake in live play, in position, against the typical player pool, especially when deep with a known fish that is sure to come along. Online is completely different. Online players that play a strict solver-based strategy severely underestimate how bad the typical live player pool is and how much you need to adjust your game accordingly.

If you change the 8s to an 8d our equity actually drops believe it or not according to PPT. Maybe you don't understand but a lot of times with weak FD's you end up burning money(esp in 5 card) chasing against a better FD. Furthermore when you make the flush not only is it the most obvious draw to hit but you'll end up calling down against better flushes or getting no value as you can't really value bet much with these weak flushes. Hope that helps.

So because you play these hands badly you assume everyone else does too? And you're trying to "help" us by telling us to play weaker hands that won't give us the opportunity to make the mistakes you do? Am I missing something?

I don't think you understand how preflop hand selection in 5c and 6c can change dramatically from 4c, or maybe you don't understand 4c either. My general point was in 5c and esp 6c if you're playing inferior draws you'll end up burning a lot of money getting yourself in bad situations. You acted like a clown originally making fun of my post with no value added, yet you prob barely beat live 1/2 PLO. If you want to add some value go ahead but your two posts here are completely worthless.

Both from a purely theoretical point of view and a gto strategy, it is always better to have more equity in the form of more draws, however weak they are. In practice, though, that doesn't necessarily always translate to it being better to have a weak draw in your hand, and such an effect will be more pronounced in 5c than 4c as you will be faced with more tough decisions with those weak draws or weak made hands.

I don't fold this pre. I don't much like a 3b shutting out BB if they're a fish. And I don't believe you need to understand all the mechanics of GTO to make this profitable.

Flop seems close and I don't mind either play, probably preferring a flat. Over half the deck is good for us and if we just call there's a reasonable chance the BB will come along with a very wide range.

Not an expert on this game, but this seems like a strong hand I wouldn't fold preflop. All 5 cards are sort of connected among other things. Understand it makes low sets and low flushes.

I would raise on the flop. You don't know the other player is interested. I think you have current nuts on the flop with a straight draw on a rainbow flop. You probably won't have the nuts on the turn. Can't see trapping 3-way in a 5-card game.

Also, seems like you gii on turn with still the nuts and a big favorite, so it seems result-oriented to complain.

Count the outs please.

Yeah, it might be results-oriented to complain, have you seen OP complaining?

Yeah, I don't think villain's exact hand was posted, but hero was probably a little ahead on the flop against a huge wrap and over 2-1 ahead on the turn.

We have 21 outs going to the turn to have the actual nuts and a further 6 to top boat. That actually drops to 4 nut outs and then 9 more to top boat going to the river.

Revealing and mocking idiocy is not worthless. The idiocy itself is, particularly when the idiot in question doubles down on it.