Call shove on flushing board with 2p?
Would love some input on this hand, dwelling on it a bit
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1/3, 550 effective, both cover me, I’m on the button, post-flop 3 ways against old man (who plays looser) in the CO and NIT in MP.
Preflop action - Limps to NIT in MP who opens for 20, CO (old man calls) and I call with 84o, we go 3-way to the flop.
(~60) Flop KT8hhd. NIT bets 50% pot, old man calls, I call.
(~165) Turn is a 4d, I have 2P. NIT bets another 50%, old man calls. I put in a raise for protection 4.2x raise, NIT tank folds, old man calls.
(~785) River 7d, old man puts me all in for ~220 more. I tank, there he has missed straights, missed heart flush draws. Do I think he jams if he doesn’t have it? I need to be right ~1/5 of the time.
Hero??
16 Replies
Welcome to the forum. Please don't include results in your OP, as they bias advice. I edited them out. Please wait until discussion dies down, or at least 24 hours, before posting you last action and shown hands.
That said, we do need to know what your hand is and the preflop action. Those matter a ton to V's range, etc. Did you have 2p on the flop, or did you somehow have a 4 in your hand? etc.
Hey Garrick, appreciate the edit
I had 84o on the button, turned 2P after floating flop. Preflop action - Limps to NIT in MP who opens for 20, CO (old man calls) and I call, we go 3-way to the flop.
(i wasn’t able to edit my post)
Welcome! Fold pre my guy. As played I also fold flop and fold turn.
Super fair, but would still appreciate input on this. Assume i’m loosening up and okay peeling and playing IP
Super fair, but would still appreciate input on this. Assume I'm loosening up and okay peeling and playing IP
Got it!
Fold pre-flop. Fold the flop.
84o is absolute trash. One of the worst hands in poker. You can't even consider an overlimp with it, much less calling a nit's open. Fold, fold, and fold again.
AP to flop, fold. You have bottom pair no kicker on a board that heavily favors the opener's range, and old man's call is pretty much always a better made hand than yours or an 8+ out draw. Very easy fold.
AP to turn, meh. You made your bed. Raising isn't awful, as this is the kind of game where Vs will overpay like crazy with draws, but you're not doing well vs a continuing range even so.
AP to river, probably a fold, though it depends on what you mean by v being an old man who plays looser. Against a normal old man, you aren't good 20% of the time. An old man has about zero bluffs here for less than 1/3 pot. He knows he doesn't have much fold equity given your turn raise and how little he has behind. I'd need some ironclad reads that he could be doing this with worse before I'd consider a call.
But the worst decision in this hand was the call pre, AINEC.
I’m assuming we straddled to 20 and they both limped in.
I would just fold the flop. We are always behind and our outs are tainted. Raising turn doesn’t seem that appealing, we don’t really want to play for stacks. Just call and play rivers in position with an underrepped hand.
River is close and we need more info on the old man.
84 is not "loosening up" it's lighting money on fire. Seriously. Fold pre, then fold on the flop.
However, if you do choose to play 84 and hit two pair, gii somewhere. If you lose, there is a reason -- it's because you played 84 😉
River is a table read -- can't help from here.
How is the pot $60 on the flop? Did we attempt to iso with this piece of junk? I think that might actually be better than calling a raise with it, but they are both horrible, imo.
Another fold for me on the flop. There's a chance we're drawing dead and thus have massive RIO on any of our "outs". Our "outs" could also be dirty (such as bringing us two pear when the flush comes in). With the other guy in the pot it makes it more difficult to rep the flush (cuz he might have it).
I would just call the turn bet. A small two pear on this board versus a nit still betting into two opponents isn't necessarily ahead. Although admittedly his sizing kinda indicates that, and the other guy does look to be drawing at this point. But against opponents who are capable of folding one pear hands (which it looks like the nit is) I'd typically just call down weakish two pear hands and make sure I don't let him off the hook (sometimes even contemplating a hero fold on the river if bet into large, while mostly betting if checked to).
Backdoor flush and a flop OESD gets there on the river. Old guy likely isn't bluffing enough on the river to begin with, let alone against a turn raiser. But yah, we are getting awesome odds. Depending on exact suits, maybe he just loses his marbles with a what-the-****-else-am-I-gonna-do shove with like AKhh enough?
Goverplayed/overvalued,imoG
He called a $20 raise pre from a NIT w/ 84o. It seems to have been edited, but from a reply: NIT in MP who opens for 20.
Agree with all other posters to fold, fold, fold, including the river. V either has the straight with J9 (open-ended on flop), or hit the back-door flush (KXdd, TXdd, etc), or both (J9dd). I seriously doubt he jams here with two pair or even a set (unless there was a high hand bonus & he was chasing a quad draw).
Wait...we have 84o?
I mean...just fold pre.
There's $60 in the pot on the flop, so...someone made it $20 pre? Was that us? Or did we call a $20 open for some insane reason? Either way - what were we thinking?
I mean...it's 1/3, someone opens for $20, which is pretty large, and we're calling with 84o??? Are we doing some sort of VPIP challenge?
FLOP - just fold.
I mean...a nit bets 1/2 pot, and an old man calls. We have bottom pair, no kicker. This is the easiest fold ever.
TURN - we should have folded pre, or on the flop. We shouldn't be here.
But, we're here. I think we could still fold, even with 2P, because it's bottom 2P. I don't mind the raise, but all my alarm bells are going off when the old man calls.
RIVER - I need to know what happened pre. Did the old man raise in the CO? If so, he could have KK or AKdd that got there.
It's a gross spot, getting 4.5 to 1 odds on a call. I don't like this spot at all, and want to go back in time so we can fold pre-flop and avoid this debacle, but here we are, in the blender with a trash 2P on a three-flush / three-straight board facing an old man who just jammed on us.
If I scroll down and see a reveal that the old man has KJ or something equally stupid, and we win, I may have to quit posting to this forum.
I'd call as played. Better made hands mostly shove turn.
For the price, not hero folding. Villain may even do this with ak/kq.
For those who missed it in post 3:
Preflop action - Limps to NIT in MP who opens for 20, CO (old man calls) and I call, we go 3-way to the flop.
I'll edit it in to the OP.
