GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

I could use an analogy, but all you've done in this thread is construct a strange side theory on why Phil Jackson's teams were successful and stuck doggedly to it, no matter how many counterexamples have been provided. As you admitted yourself, your goal has been to find some backwards rationale to fit your objective of arguing LeBron as outside the best 10 players OAT. It's entirely subjective and partisan. This is far from the scientific method.

The GOAT conversation can be enjoyable or maddening in different ways. You have found a third way: trying to drive the conversation into a synthetic side theory argument you have constructed. It makes my ****ing eyes bleed. I can't read your long posts. They are so convoluted, partisan, self-serving and irrelevant.

When people talk about Internet forums as a bad thing, a gigantic waste of time, you have put on a clinic proving their point. Months of cumulative effort on your part to write thousands of words nobody will ever read to "win" an argument by drowning your counterparts in nonsense. You have been gifted one life on this earth - you are wasting it.

I've proven why Lebron is a fraud and given anyone that wants to rank him outside the top 30 a good reason to do so.

I don't view this as a waste of time and I'm proud of my accomplishment.

It's funny because Lebron exposes himself with his own actions - you wouldn't need to watch him on the court or look at his historical record to know that pulling teeth is a breeze compared to manufacturing a title for him.

Btw, with the recent firing of Coach Malone and the Warriors' core being old, there are no ball movement teams with a real chance in the West, so the 2 biggest ball-dominators ever have a free path to the Finals and probably the title, since their 3rd option is easily better than anyone's 2nd option... It turns out that Reaves might closer to a modern Bird than anyone else right now... Accordingly, it will be another LA-Boston Finals just like the NBA wants and manufactured... Only a colossal choke would prevent it.

If anybody actually reads all his posts, I'd be shocked. I feel kind of bad, he might actually be a nice guy, just wasting his life for no reason dying on this hill.

Fallguy, do you ever wonder what you might accomplish in life if you used this time for something productive?

I've already accomplished more than you guys... I'm more educated with better careers than you guys have had, and I've sent kids off to college, which I know none of you chumps have ever done.

So keep pretending - it's fine.. I've proven Lebron isn't goat or even in the top 30... So keep ignoring all my posts that destroy you.. It won't stop me from posting and spreading the truth about this bum that ruined basketball and isn't even that good.

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Lebron isn't dominating - he's a dumb ball-dominator that is costing Luka from having a 60-win pace, which is what he should have with this Laker roster:

Lebron is a massive negative that the league allows to stat-pad and pretend he's great, but he clearly prevented 50 wins with Luka frieking Doncic or AD, which is a joke - 5 straight seasons of under 50 wins with AD isn't even top 500 all-time, let alone #2... So it's all fraud

^^^ all my posts like this that destroy Matt's get ignored, while Matt and Fidstar pretend that I didn't respond so Matt can repost the same debunked kindergarten trash later on..

Matt didn't respond to this post and many others because he can't.. Fidstar does the same - once I bust him up, he quits and then comes back later and pretends it never happened.

Any intelligent person or even an AI program would say that 95% of my points aren't responded to at all
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^^^^ these facts will get ignored just like my last posts on this page destroying Matt, Fidstar and McLovin'....

And then some sycophant like Carnivore or Montreal will come on here and pretend that I haven't said anything and that I haven't convinced anyone... But you're lying and it's obvious - you know exactly why Lebron isn't that good and this thread taught it to you..

You can't sway me because everything I've said is historical and statistical record, so I'll never come off it unless someone invents a time machine so Lebron and his skillset of ball-domination can go back and not suck as much.

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Summary of Matt's arguments getting destroyed;

A) Players can adjust their style based on the system, since young Curry was once ball-dominant and mostly unassisted by teammates (low assisted rates).

Curry wasn't elite as a primary ballhandler and the best levels of success achieved with this style required elite ball-dominance like SGA, Luka or Lebron... Similarly, ball movement systems require elite off-ball players, so Lebron can't run ball movement systems, as required by dynasties.. He simply isn't an elite off-ball player as required for ball movement systems, aka dynasty-ball - he isn't Duncan, Shaq, Curry or MJ.


B) Lebron adds more to team assists than MJ or Kobe by having higher APG + assisted buckets

It means nothing if he craters these things for teammates, so the exercise of adding APG + assisted buckets needs to be done for his teammates' first season with Lebron... This should be compared to the prior year to see how their contribution to team assists was affected by Lebron's presence... When this comparison is done, we see that Lebron increased all his teammates' assisted buckets or spot-up role significantly, which caused even bigger declines in their APG, thus causing low assist teams over time... It's bball 101 that ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles upon teammates, which craters their assists and creates low average ranking in team assists over time.


C)Lebron can produce great teams because he won 3 chips in 5 seasons from 12' to 16'.

There are many facts of like the earth is round, or 2+2=4, or Lebron never producing a great team - he perennially-lost with every team, such as 1 for 4 with Love, AD or Wade (except the Allen miracle).. He never produced a great team despite the most help ever because he has the worst chemistry and brand of ball ever... i.e. "downhill" skillset, aka not 5-man basketball, aka turns everyone into spot-up shooter (bad ball movement)


D) Lebron is a hybrid that plays 5 positions

Lots of guys are "hybrids", so it means little in a goat debate... And he isn't much of a hybrid anyway because he's too bulky to defend guys like Klay off screens or run off screens himself - so he can't play SG, and can't be a real center either.. He's simply the primary ballhandler for every team in his career, while his career assisted rate is one that only primary ballhandlers have (under 40%).


E) Lebron developed Reaves from single-digit rookie to meaningful producer, and therefore has 1 guy that he developed in his career

Reaves craters alongside Lebron's ball-dominance and explodes without him, while AD arrived at the same time as Reaves to lift a lottery team to champion and develop Reaves... Specifically, AD's off-ball game puts the ball in Reaves hands and provides the big assist target that young players need to develop... This is similar to Duncan, MJ, and Curry's off-ball game putting the ball in Dray, Pippen or Manu's hands and providing a big assist target for them... Otoh, ball-dominators like Lebron prevented young player development for 22 years by imposing spot-up roles.

Did I miss anything Matt?

Thread Cliffs

The entirety of basketball history shows that increases in a player's assisted buckets and spot-up role reduces their assists significantly, which explains why high-scoring primary ballhandlers (ball-dominators) and their imposition of spot-up roles produce low assist teams over time.. In Lebron's case, the low assist teams caused assist deficits in every series loss of his playoff career, so inferior ball movement was the catalyst in all his losses and therefore the Achilles' heel of his game.

This inferior brand and turning everyone into spot-up shooter prevents elite roster construction, young player development, chemistry and great teams (dynasties or dominant champions), or winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player... Accordingly, ball-dominators are excluded from the top 10 in favor of highly-assisted skillsets that produced all the best chemistry and teams in history (bigs or jumpshooters).. Accordingly, the top 10 is a subjective mix of non-ball-dominators and highly assisted players (bigs and jumpshooters)... i.e. MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron, Oscar, KD, etc.

Checking in , not reading anything lol.

But hey autumnguy, if you stand for Jordan you’ll fall for anything.

Seriously though do you still think the Lakers go all the way this year?

I actually really like how they matchup with OKC.

I'm not following the fraud... I don't watch Lebron, the Lakers, or the NBA because it's fraud WWE and a trash easy-scoring beginner format that no one watches.

I derive my entertainment from the game by playing it, and also by researching how bad Lebron is, and therefore how much you guys fell for a fraud... Fraud is interesting to research, and it's amazing how much of a victim you guys all are.

Nearly every good teammate that Lebron ever had saw their PPG crater by 4-10 ppg alongside him, while their APG cratered 20-50% (0.5 to 3.0 APG per player).

* cratering teammates' PPG and APG

* increasing everyone's assisted rate and spot-up role

* long list of bad fits with many teammates

* lacks the elite off-ball skills that ball movement systems require (dynasty-ball)

* low assist teams and assist deficits in every playoff series loss

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High-scoring ball-dominators leave teammates in spot-up roles with higher assisted rates:

....................................................... ASSISTED RATE

wade BEFORE lebron (04'-10'):........... 29.2%
wade WITH.... lebron (11'-14'):'.......... 40.3%

irving BEFORE lebron (12'-14'):.......... 31.9%
irving WITH.... lebron.. (15-17'):......... 32.7%

bosh BEFORE lebron (04'-10'):............ 55.8%
bosh WITH.... lebron (11'-14'):'........... 71.6%

love BEFORE lebron (09'-14'):.............. 62.7%
love WITH.... lebron (15'-18'):.............. 78.3%

mo BEFORE lebron (05'-08'):............... 39.2%
mo WITH.... lebron (09'-10'):............... 47.6%

THESE SPOT-UP ROLES LOWER TEAMMATES' ASSISTS

ASSISTS PER GAME AS A STARTER WITH AND WITHOUT LEBRON:

12-14' Kyrie............... 5.8
15-17' Kyrie............... 5.3 (with Lebron)
18-24' Kyrie............... 5.8

04-10' Bosh............... 2.2
11-14' Bosh............... 1.6 (with Lebron)
15-16' Bosh............... 2.3

11-14' Love................ 3.0
15-18' Love................ 2.1 (with Lebron)
19-21' Love................ 2.8

05-08' Mo................... 5.7
09-10' Mo................... 4.6 (with Lebron)
11-13' Mo................... 5.3

09-10' Chalmers........ 4.2
11-14' Chalmers........ 3.6 (with Lebron)

99-04' Snow................ 6.9
06-07' Snow................ 4.1 (with Lebron)

01-05' Hughes........... 3.8
06-08' Hughes........... 3.3 (with Lebron)

2018 Ingram.............. 3.9
2019 Ingram.............. 3.0 (with Lebron)
20-25' Ingram............ 5.2

2019 Kuzma............... 2.5 (with Lebron)
22-25' Kuzma............. 3.8

2018 Ball..................... 7.2
2019 Ball..................... 5.4 (with Lebron)
20-22' Ball................... 6.1

00-09' Jamison........... 1.8
2010 Jamison............. 1.3 (with Lebron)
11-12' Jamison........... 1.9

04-10' Wade............... 6.6
11-14' Wade............... 4.7 (with Lebron)

19-22' D-Lo................. 6.7
23-25' D-Lo................. 6.2 (with Lebron)

09-21' Westbrook....... 8.5
2022 Westbrook..........7.1 (with Lebron)

15-18'' KCP.................. 2.0
19-21' KCP................... 1.6 (with Lebron)
22-25' KCP................... 2.2

By lowering teammates' assists, high-scoring ball-dominators produce low-assist teams.

Specifically, players that scored a lot of unassisted solo missions, i.e. players that averaged 25+ with under 40% assisted rate in a season occurred 96 times since 1997, and they averaged 18th in assists, while producing a top 5 assist team 5 of 96 times (5%).

Otoh, high-scorers that played more off-ball and were assisted by teammates more often produced higher assist teams.. Specifically, players that averaged 25+ with over 50% assisted rate occurred 87 times, and they averaged 10th in team assists, while producing a top 5 assist team 36 of 87 times (41%).

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Nearly every good player saw their PPG crater alongside Lebron:


2025 AD..................... 30
2025 AD..................... 25 (with Lebron)

2025 Reaves............. 28
2025 Reaves............. 19 (with Lebron)

2025 Luka................. 30
2025 Luka................. 27 (with Lebron)

2010 Bosh................. 24
2011 Bosh................. 18 (with Lebron)

2014 Love.................. 26
2015 Love.................. 16 (with Lebron)

2005 Hughes............. 22
2006 Hughes............. 15 (with Lebron)

2010 Jamison............. 22
2010 Jamison............. 16 (with Lebron)

2021 Westbrook........ 22
2022 Westbrook........ 18 (with Lebron)

2019 Ingram.............. 18 (with Lebron)
2020 Ingram.............. 24

2021 Drummond...... 18
2021 Drummond...... 12 (with Lebron)

2024 Dinwiddie......... 13
2024 Dinwiddie........... 7 (with Lebron)


Sources:

Lakers stats with Lebron this season: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-...

Lakers stats w/out Lebron this season: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-...

^^^ Lebron's ball-domination cratered his teammates' PPG and APG, while teammates grew by leaps and bounds alongside MJ by averaging more PPG and APG alongside him (Pippen, Woolridge, Grant, BJ, Vincent, Oakley, Paxson, Kerr, Longley, etc)..

So it's night and day how Lebron's ball-domination craters teammates, while Jordan's off-ball game elevated teammates, so his teams played to capacity.

Anthony Davis has completely cratered since he stopped having LeBron to play with. Fallguy did you notice? 20.6 PPG on .455 fg%

Oh and Luka starting to thrive next to James now.

do your spin on that.

Are you going to say it's a goat achievement if Lebron wins a ring while being 2nd or 3rd option to Luka?

Because that would be fraud... Your support for such a thing would show that you fell for a massive fraud and are basically hypnotized into saying things that are clearly not true...

No one cares about "Horry rings", or I guess it would be equivalent to "Pau rings" or "Klay rings"..

(it would be like a "pippen ring" too but for some reason pippen gets credit for his 6 chips as if he's 1st option, while Klay, Pau or other 2nd options are never given credit for chips).

Btw, regarding your other point - AD gave his 20's to Lebron - he sacrificed his prime for bron-ball and to be viewed for the rest of history as a 2nd option instead of a franchise player stud like he was before... Wade made this same mistake - he's now viewed as a 2nd option with basically no rings of his own (no one remembers or cares about 06').

Ultimately, Lebron won less than 50 games with AD for 5 straight seasons, and never won 60 with Love, or he won 60 games once in 7 seasons with 2 stars (11-17')..... 300 players could do better than this.. Lebron's pattern is to hand-pick the preseason favorite but then underperform the regular season and fall to "underdog" - this produces a fake "upset" later on to inflate the rare times that he wins... Since he wins so rarely, the fake inflation is needed.

CHECKMATE!

i mean the strawman and the story you believe in your head is impressive.

thats the spirit !

so yup , nice story bro while not adressing the fact u believe reeves an all nba this season with such stats (35th scorer in the league , 20p/5a/4r .458 FG%) lol...

yup and keep using pippen years (88,89.90)that no one argues about too lol..

Pippen sacrificed his prime for MJ.

Davis was a franchise player on teams that accomplished nothing, just like Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving. So basically nothing Pippen didn't accomplish.

2025 Reaves............. 28 ppg (without Lebron)
2025 Reaves............. 19 ppg (with Lebron)

Again, Reaves is All-NBA without Lebron and should've been an all-star years ago like Pippen was alongside Jordan by Year 3, smh... Otoh, Reaves and Ingram suffer alongside Lebron and can't get all-star or All-NBA, smh

AD got hurt immediately upon joining the Mavs and there's an adjustment period, while the apples to apples comparison was his time on the Lakers with and without Lebron (this season) - this apples to apples comparison shows 20% higher PPG in games without Lebron (30 vs 25), as shown in the 2nd post of this page.

Luka is simply reducing Lebron now, rather than vice versa - the top ball-dominator imposes spot-up roles and higher assisted rates on everyone else, and we've seen Lebron's assisted rate skyrocket during his demotion from alpha status... This confirms that Luka is the alpha now, and since he's a ball-dominator, everyone's assisted rate skyrockets, aka "he turns everyone into spot-up shooter" - this is a statistically-based colloquialism that accurately describes the brand of ball and skillset of a high-scoring primary ballhandler, aka ball-dominator.

Since Lebron is reduced and was already a massive negative anyway, there's no way the Lakers can win, unless Reaves somehow plays like a top 10 player in the league in spite of Luka's ball-dominance and Lebron's subsequent reduction.