Nitty turn fold vs aggression?
Pre flop : I think we play TT's here as a pure flat. BB 3b's tend to be more weighted towards value hands - at least as far as I have seen thus far. If we 4b & get jammed on we have to fold & obv folding to villain 3b is out of question.
Flop : Given pre flop action I think we play this as a pure flat. Is there any reasoning/ logic behind playing the flop differently? Or maybe even pre flop? Considering that any turn card that isnt a T is basically bad for us - do we still decide to just flat here & hold on for dear life going to turn? Idk. Kinda sucks to flat here & then fold turn whenever we do not improve. Thoughts?
Turn : Villain bets large on turn. I remember thinking - we lose to all of the over pairs (AA-JJ) & villain only has flush draws in range as bluffs. Not having the Th here is good as we unblock some of the flushes villain can have. However, if we call turn & river is a blank we kinda have to call off otherwise seems like calling turn is a mistake. In the moment, I kept going back & forth - I didnt have much time in my time bank so actually did not have as much time as I would have liked to have. Decided to sigh fold & wait for a better spot. In retrospect, did I play this hand too passively? I like how we played pre flop/ flop. OTT I am rly unsure of our fold. Any thoughts/ feedback would be appreciated. Did I just get steamrolled in this spot?
5 Replies
Pre flop : I think we play TT's here as a pure flat. BB 3b's tend to be more weighted towards value hands - at least as far as I have seen thus far. If we 4b & get jammed on we have to fold & obv folding to villain 3b is out of question.
Not so obvious, in fact TT is mostly a fold in this configuration. When you consider almost no one at microstakes has the trash hands BB is supposed to 3bet with at some frequency, it becomes a pure fold in my opinion.
I can see where you're coming from boul but i reckon it would be pretty bad to fold TT here. In a high fish environment with big implied odds for the set plus all the times they never bluff us off our eq I'd expect we do at least slightly if not much better than a solver here.
Looking at that 'chart'...
They (GTO) has JJ as a zero EV call here like wtf? I just can't imagine how that wouldn't be profitable in these games with us IP. Even vs a linear range. Plus preflop + cbet size = at worst bad reg here seemingly, so there's also the chance we play GTO post. And even regs will mess that up probably more than we f up our hit 'n miss SDV hand.
Maybe I'm wrong but I dont' know why I'm wrong.
As for post.. I think we can or should probably raise here otf OP. They could be cbetting range and overfolding. We could discipline fold if he shoves because, yeah, I think that's a bit optimistic. But I don't think it's a cert, and knocking him off broadways early is going to boost our EV. A sort of weird bluff value protection hybrid.
EDIT: oh and call turn i think
Folding pre would be very bad tbh, in my opinion.
Turn, a pp overpair, having the gutshot as extra equity, being IP, I'm not convinced at all that this is a fold, even in a tight formation.
Not so obvious, in fact TT is mostly a fold in this configuration. When you consider almost no one at microstakes has the trash hands BB is supposed to 3bet with at some frequency, it becomes a pure fold in my opinion.
I think villain can still have AK, AQs, AJs, A5s in his 3b range out of BB. He will have the overpairs as well (JJ-AA). I think flatting is fine & re-evaluating on flop. We also have the implied odds whenever we flop sets vs overpairs & get stacks in. I see what you are saying & I agree that most players in this pool arent finding a lot of 3b bluffs in this spot. It is close imo
I can see where you're coming from boul but i reckon it would be pretty bad to fold TT here. In a high fish environment with big implied odds for the set plus all the times they never bluff us off our eq I'd expect we do at least slightly if not much better than a solver here. Looking at that 'chart'... They (GTO) has JJ as a zero EV call here like wtf? I just can't imagine how
I rly like your point about raising flop. I actually nvr rly thought about that - I sometimes get in the habit of auto piloting in certain spots instead of thinking about different lines to take. I think raising is cool for all of the reasons you mentioned (all of villains broadways that are c-betting find folds so we get protection for our hand, if we get 4b we can just muck as we are always behind in that config).
As played, I agree I think turn needs to be a call. I completely buthered that spot. I think I may have overthought it instead of just going w the obv line. Thank you for the insight regarding flop raise - I am going to keep that in mind if/when I find myself in this spot moving forward.
