AKo UTG+1 with tight image
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Game is fairly wild but not the craziest I've played. Lots of 3-betting and high variance spots. V1 just sat down a few orbits ago and ran pure in a massive spot coolering three people and now covers the table. I have been a mix of card dead and flop dead and have a nitty image to anyone paying attention (V1 and V2 aren't really good enough to care about that though).
V1 - polite middle eastern guy. Sucks at poker. Plays very face up post and loose passive pre. Just bleeds down. I forget the hand where he won all the money but it was something like J9o flops a straight vs two sets and an overpair or somesuch. Now he's smiling happy and chatting it up. His raising range is very premium but I've only played with him once before. Covers. BB.
V2 - Not sure the term for loose passive that bluffs a lot but thats this guy... station pre, bluffy and fastplaying post. Came to gamble. VPIPing close to 85%. Just in there with anything, calling 50 pre with J8s off 400$ stack. His stack is yo-yo-ing. He's currently down 100$ at 425$. UTG.
We have 850$ UTG+1.
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V2 straddles UTG, we see A♣ K♠ and open 25, loose passive losing fish calls 25 in late position, V1 cold 3-bets 125, V2 insta-calls 125 leaving 300 back, Hero thinks and looks at fish IP who looks ready to fold, H calls (your thoughts?), fish folds. 3-ways IP.
Flop 400 - J♥ 6♦ 2♣
V1 bets 110, V2 folds, we ...?
12 Replies
I'm folding the flop as much as it sucks. This is assuming he has a very very limited 3 bet range of QQ+ and maybe AK.
I'm surprised he downbet the flop as a novice. Does this suggest he has AA or JJ and isn't scared of almost any turns? Or AK and wants to limit his liability. Who knows I suppose.
I'm all in pre vs any player with a reasonable 3 bet %. And if unsure how tight they are I'm probably shoving. If I'm reading it right there's about 300 in the pot before action is back on you, that's too juicy to pass up taking it all down pre.
Maybe you get him to fold a hand like JJ or QQ since he's still sitting on a big stack and happy after his J9 straight hand.
ehhh with V2 in there and you have AK i dont hate re-pop this deep.
calling is fine though too, if V1 is loose and their 3bet reflects that, maybe repop works for value but if they're loose but their 3bet range reflects more of the passive side then calling is fine this deep too.
flop sucks but I think i still peel - 110 in a pot of 510, i mean?
if we fold here and conclude its never anything less than KK here (eg JJ is a set so is above the KK) I'm wondering why we're giving action preflop?
Personally i wanna make a case for raising given the fact that you have more Jx in your call 3bet range and just give up if called though - I honestly think that might be a liiiitttle better than just peeling UNLESS you think they check back turn and river and allow you to realize equity/go to showdown after peeling flop.
if they're passive, its possible. and if they're passive, maybe raising is stupid BUT are they timid/scared? will they bet a hand that looks like value here but turn tail to re-agression? then a repop to 2.5x is fun and interesting again.
I estimate his 3-bet here to be JJ+, AKo/s. I'll add TT because he may be on winners tilt. Throw in a few combos of 99 if being generous.
I'd probably just make a decision preflop with all the money that's in there - I'm sure V2 would flick in the rest against a jam. If villain is 3betting AJ/AQ/etc then it's a clear jam but if he's AK/JJ+ only then we're behind but with the shortstack in there it might still be profitable. Calling is just messy I think when we miss the flop - will make mistakes and if we pair up it's fairly obvious. As played I'm not folding the flop for 110
Grunch:
Our $25 open is a tad large over a $6 straddle. I'd probably go $20, but better a tad too large than a tad too small.
If our read is that V1's raising range is "very premium", what's his cold 3B'ing range look like, especially when he goes 5x? Very VERY premium?
Honestly, I think I might just fold pre. Calling and 4B'ing are arguably fine, but things get weird when we 4B to $300 or a little more, V1 jams, and V2 re-shoves for less. At that point we can't fold, even knowing we're never ahead.
That's why I probably just fold pre. There's almost no scenario in which we're ahead pre, or getting paid if we make TPTK on the flop. If V1 has QQ, he's shutting down on A or K high boards, and blasting off on boards without A or K.
His down bet here might be begging to get action, or could be FOS, but our hand isn't strong enough to raise, unless we think he's taking this line with AK/AQ and will fold. His description sounds like the sort who wouldn't 3B to 5x and c-bet the flop with AK, and would only do this with strong hands.
Think I just fold.
Banana with a tight image?!? 😀
I limp in.
Kinda weird preflop spot, imo. V1 is very passive and face up and just put in $125 preflop. Isn't this like AA/KK and nothing else facing a EP raise? Passive face up guys flat QQ/AK a huge percentage of the time to a $25 raise, imo. And big stacks tighten *way* up regarding 3betting large preflop (whereas we are more likely to see wider 3bets on shorter stacks cuz lol @ my meaningless $ shortstack). V2 has offered a lotta dead money to the pot, but I think we're mostly just smoked by V1 unless my read is off? I hero fold, although I'm simply going on Banana read here.
Is flop a real question? I don't see how it can possibly be anything other than a fold? Are we thinking $100 is a weak bet due to size of pot? $100 is like the biggest flop bet this guy has ever made, it's monstrous.
GcluelessNLnoobG
I like the $25, and I might even go $30 vs. these guys. I 4bet or fold pre-flop; fold if you really think he's that tight.
As played, just fold the flop.
Result:
Spoiler
I call flop, Turn T rainbow, He pauses then does this weird move like grabbing his chips and smacking the table like he's frustrated, shrugs, then says "welp I guess I'm all in" and I snap fold. Later my friend asked him what he had when I was gone and he said he had a set and hoped I had AA or KK.
I hate the way you played this, if you think he has that tight of a 3betting range (AK+ and QQ+) then just fold pre. And definitely fold the flop even for that price.
If you think he has a reasonable 3betting range then stuff pre, there's dead money and because he's winning he might fold TT, JJ, the same hand as you, etc. Sometimes which is a huge win.
Wow. Somebody's been reading. I had V much tighter than JJ pf, hence my wanting to pile over them (and rep the hand they likely already had). Alternatively, wouldn't you call flop with JJ there? So then would I, and Thank God they speech-shipped turn into you.
Lucky bugger, isn't he? Nice dodge. I think you played it fine, beyond the pf decision. I'm always really leery of "passive" Vs deciding to get their 3! on. Agree with those who said fold pre.
I hate the way you played this, if you think he has that tight of a 3betting range (AK+ and QQ+) then just fold pre. And definitely fold the flop even for that price.
If you think he has a reasonable 3betting range then stuff pre, there's dead money and because he's winning he might fold TT, JJ, the same hand as you, etc. Sometimes which is a huge win.
I mean..I'm getting an amazing price pre 3-ways IP... My hand has 30-35% if V2 has an A or K, sometimes he has one of V1's pair outs... I don't get paid a lot when I hit is maybe an issue but I think I almost have direct odds on a call to see a flop.
if V1 is 3! a 5% range here, AKo IP is easily a call or a repop without question.
In a vacuum, even if hero was 3! a prior raise, and villain cold 4's from the SB say and it folds to hero - hero should just shove at 100bbs in high rake environment.
For those arguing its a fold pre, can you help me understand why we should fold AKo IP when stacks are greater than 200bb?
If the answer is cold 3 is {AA, KK} ok sure. In which case I'd counter that whatever game you play in, it is unbeatable and you should definitely stop playing there.
