How we treat different personalities in poker
I’ve been watching and loving this game for years—both online and on TV—and one of the players I always admired was Cliff Josephy (aka “JohnnyBax”). His composure, experience, and success made him someone I looked up to.
But something about the 2016 WSOP Main Event has stayed with me, and I feel it never got the attention it deserved.
We all remember William Kassouf that year. Love him or hate him, his table talk and speech play tilted players and made the tournament a lot more entertaining. He didn’t insult anyone, didn’t break any rules (at least until the infamous tank/fold hand), and just played the game his way—using psychological pressure to his advantage. It’s a legitimate part of poker, whether people like it or not.
But what stood out to me is how Cliff Josephy—someone I respected—started calling Kassouf names like “punk” and “a disgrace to the poker community”. That hit differently for me. This wasn’t a criticism of a strategy; it felt personal and harsh. And the poker community seemed to accept it. Nobody blinked.
Then, fast forward to the final table… and Cliff himself starts acting kind of wild. Emotional, vocal, and even a bit cocky. Suddenly, the behavior that was condemned by Kassouf became acceptable when it came from someone with status and popularity.
Why the double standard?
I’m not here to defend every second of Kassouf’s screen time—but I am wondering why Cliff was allowed to get emotional and expressive without facing the same heat. It felt like Kassouf was judged for being “annoying” while Cliff was celebrated for being “passionate.”
I still respect both players for different reasons. But as a fan of the game, I think we need to have honest conversations about hypocrisy in how we treat different personalities in poker. Should charisma and speech play be penalized socially just because it’s coming from someone outside the “poker elite”?
Would love to hear what others think. Was Cliff out of line in how he talked about Kassouf? Did the poker world give him a pass? Is speech play still misunderstood?
Let’s talk about it.
— Ahmad
20 Replies
I’ve been watching and loving this game for years—both online and on TV—and one of the players I always admired was Cliff Josephy (aka “JohnnyBax”😉. His composure, experience, and success made him someone I looked up to.But something about the 2016 WSOP Main Event has stayed with me, and I feel it never got the attention it deserved.We all remember
I don't know anything about Cliff, but Kassouf is a collosal piece of ****. Just because you're doing something that's "not against the rules" doesn't mean you aren't a gigantic prick for doing it.
Also, it is diabolical that this is your first & only post in 17 years of being a member here. Wild!
The difference between doing something ALL THE TIME and only doing it once or very limited number of times. Plus Kassouf is a major POS. Let's also consider that the chances of EVERYONE being wrong is basically zero or less then zero. If the vast majority of people think and all agree someone is a POS it's not the vast majority that is the problem. The problem is the guy is a POS.
You're free to disagree with the vast majority all you want. But you'd be wrong and they would be right.
Cheers!!!
Kassouf made a deal in the hu where he agreed to take 2nd place if he can have the trophy. He is paisting level idiot.
Not trying to defend Kassouf but most people hardly knew who he was when he got all that screentime in 2016 so excusing the backlash he got from certain people with "hes a piece of ****" is revisionism. IIRC people were very split on Kassouf back then. A lot of people watching reacted like Benger really went off the rails getting tilted by his antics, while a large portion also supported his speech play and thought it was a legit part of poker.
Coverage doesn’t show everything he’d be consistently purposefully annoying and abusive to other players. He also stole chips form his friend while they were playing and has other allegations of theft against him so didn’t age well. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/ne...
from what I see in the Benger clip he does nothing that is being called a POS worthy... Just a bit annoying talking about the hand really... Nothing too crazy.
It is funny the responses here are exactly what the guy is talking about in the OP
That year was probably the last time the WSOP on TV was interesting and Kassouf was big part.
Although I can imagine it was more grating to players there in moment as they needed to endure the unedited and directly impacts them
CJ was quite harsh but don’t know history. He looked like a dooshbag cop at final table that year
Also, it is diabolical that this is your first & only post in 17 years of being a member here. Wild!
Somewhere, there should be a top 10 list for the longest waits before a first post. This has to be up there. Of course, few first posts will ever top this: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp... (see the thread for the context and the join date vs. post).
As for the actual topic, agree with Scotch: I do remember more than a few people sharing the OP's sentiments, that Bax and a few others (e.g. Gordon Vayo) repeatedly ganged up on Kassouf. How people felt about it seemed to depend on how early they followed the coverage. Those of us who watched the early days saw how annoying Kassouf was, and kind of enjoyed the comeuppance.
But by the time the Benger "check your privilege" video rolled around, it seemed there was some actual sympathy for Kassouf, with Josephy seeming like the lead bully or whatever. I think Benger later said his lashing out at Kassouf was part of the table dynamic by then.
The impression that I got from TV is that Will was habitually tanking in trivial spots to grind out pay jumps, which was a big part of why other players were getting angry with him. They were also getting annoyed by his repetitive stream of commentary and quips, which was about putting the spotlight on himself and turning the table into his personal stage. It was "their" moment and he was trying to make it "my" moment. That seemed to be part of what irked them. It felt like there was a sadistic element to some of his table talk antics (Matuson hand comes to mind). He was a bit of a bully. Add it all up and there's a good case that he's bad for the game if you are at his table. That's without even getting into other subsequent transgressions.
Was it entertaining though? If I'm being honest, I think he elevated the entertainment value of the broadcast product. The whole "9 high like a boss" hand against Matuson is one of the most entertaining video clips in recent WSOP history. He added some spice to the product. I'll draw a parallel with Kabrhel. It's clear that most players do not enjoy being at the table with him. From a TV standpoint, he increases the intrigue, even if only as someone to anti-sweat.
I didn't find any of Josephy's behavior to be especially grating. I've seen him on several WSOP telecasts and he usually conducts himself well. He was one of the oldest and most respected players to make a deep run in 2016, and he seized the opportunity to speak up against what he perceived as amateurish and petulant behavior. That other players like Moss and Benger were also going in on Kassouf suggests widespread frustration, and not just one guy with a bone to pick. I think Josephy's final table behavior was simply about being emotionally invested in a massive, massive moment. He wasn't out there cracking non-stop jokes like Kassouf trying to get himself over. He was just understandably vocal and emotional in some huge spots.
We all remember William Kassouf that year. Love him or hate him, his table talk and speech play tilted players and made the tournament a lot more entertaining. He didn’t insult anyone, didn’t break any rules (at least until the infamous tank/fold hand), and just played the game his way—using psychological pressure to his advantage. It’s a legitimate part of poker, whether peopl
WSOP Rule 119: Etiquette and Disruptive Behavior
This rule notes: "Repeated etiquette violations, including excessive chatter disrupting players in a hand, may result in penalties."
Interpretation: While general conversation (e.g., non-game-related small talk) is not explicitly forbidden, it must not disrupt other players. Excessive chatter can lead to penalties, suggesting that even non-game talk is discouraged during hands to maintain focus.
The WSOP and TDA disagree. "cmon mate, just muck it what you got? 9 high like a boss let's go mate almost final table, you wanna go all in?" while the other guy is just sitting there quietly is not a legitimate part of poker. This isn't a Hollywood movie where people make comments before during and after every single node in the game tree. Just play good poker and you won't feel like you have to gain an edge through a tactic that has no strategic element to it other than just pissing people off.
I liked Kassouf the best that year
Joseph did not come off well on the broadcast
Players like William Kassouf is why so many tournaments have implemented time chips and clocks. That he took so long with KK decisions is not the issue. It is the 92 off suits that make his style so disruptive and at least in my mind makes him a continual angle shooter. Yes it can work to your advantage with some players under the tension of the moment but it's a miserable way to play the game IMO and makes watching the broadcast equally tedious.
As to Cliff Josephy (Johnny Bax of old ) I have played at the WSOP with him ONCE and found him to be an absolute gentlemen. Considerate, funny, and
Self-deprecating. That may skew my opinion of his 2016 final table but I didn't find his actions out of line at all.
the hate kassouf got was absurd
people hated on him more than people that openly cheated at poker
Stalling both live and online is disruptive and hated in any game, from chess to Pokémon TCGP and many others, no one likes to be forced to sit idle
People who like Will Kassouf have no integirty, class, or morals. Kassouf and those that believe his behavior is fine is what is wrong with poker and why poker won't be accepted by society. There should be zero tolerance for cheating, tanking or not having proper poker etiquette.
People who like Will Kassouf have no integirty, class, or morals. Kassouf and those that believe his behavior is fine is what is wrong with poker and why poker won't be accepted by society. There should be zero tolerance for cheating, tanking or not having proper poker etiquette.
... including poker streamers' chat.
Lol poker is 100% accepted by society
