Was this the correct jam?
PKO Late reg just ended.
HJ (25bb) straight forward player opens 2.1x
CO(50bb) calling station who does not fold. V84/P10 calls the open
SB (67bb) weak player calls the open
Hero BB (26bb) AJo Hero rips it all in.
HJ folds
CO snap calls
SB folds
Is this a correct Jam? CO is calling no matter what I've seen him continuously call big all ins with junk over and over so is this a good spot to be flipping? I'm suppose to want to get it in with big unsuited cards against calling stations right?
16 Replies
Well, no, because you're trying to target the CO and you're just completely ignoring HJ over there. HJ didn't come into play this hand, but you need to consider him at least. SB too weak player might snap you off with 44 and you're gambling. HJ straight forward player has 25 BBs and opens 2.1x I am not automatically taking any premiums out of his range.
But if you can get the loose drunk guy in a heads up situation and willing to get it in with trash against your AJo go for it.
A standard 3bet is a better option. You can price out and get a bunch of hands HJ and SB could have that you would be gambling with to get out while still targeting the CO.
Well, no, because you're trying to target the CO and you're just completely ignoring HJ over there. HJ didn't come into play this hand, but you need to consider him at least. SB too weak player might snap you off with 44 and you're gambling.
But if you can get the loose drunk guy in a heads up situation and willing to get it in with trash against your AJo go for it.
I don't think I was over looking the HJ. According to the hands I had on him. He was over opening from MP and folding to 3-bets 100% of the time. The SB was weak not the type of player to get it in w/44 pre.
I don't think I was over looking the HJ. According to the hands I had on him. He was over opening from MP and folding to 3-bets 100% of the time. The SB was weak not the type of player to get it in w/44 pre.
If you've already pre-determined you're going to roll with your AJo against whatever CO's holding is, and you strongly think HJ and SB will get out of the way probably 3bet to 8x and just jam whatever the flop is if you totally brick it. At least that way you're getting the small possibility of CO folding. You already plan on rolling with the hand.
8x is a 1/3 of stack if your putting in 1/3 of stack than you should just be jamming. just 8xing against an extreme calling station who doesnt fold no matter if they hit the board or not doesnt make sense were just putting ourselves into a dicey situation where they will get it in with bottom pair ona flop. were 3betting all in 22bb or less thats standard. so an extra 4 bb in this situation doesnt really matter especially 4 ways when we know we are ahead of everyones ranges.
8x is a 1/3 of stack if your putting in 1/3 of stack than you should just be jamming. just 8xing against an extreme calling station who doesnt fold no matter if they hit the board or not doesnt make sense were just putting ourselves into a dicey situation where they will get it in with bottom pair ona flop. were 3betting all in 22bb or less thats standard. so an extra 4 bb in
These rather unprovoked 3B jams with ~25 bigs look a hell of a lot weaker than if you 3 bet and then jam flop. I'm expecting a lot of 88, 99, TT, KQ, and what you had AJ to show up here.
There's really not a ton of difference between jamming this spot pre and 3 betting then jamming flop if you've already made the decision your money is going in except your hand looks stronger and a small percentage of the time you'll drag a decent sized pot back even when you totally miss everything.
I don't mind call from the BB. Later in the tournament, shoves or 3! and shove flop work better, as people don't want to bust.
If we are 3 betting here at 26bbs thats 3.2x the open add 1bb for every caller giving making our 3bet 10.92 thats basically half our stack.
PKO Late reg just ended.HJ (25bb) straight forward player opens 2.1xCO(50bb) calling station who does not fold. V84/P10 calls the openSB (67bb) weak player calls the openHero BB (26bb) AJo Hero rips it all in. HJ foldsCO snap callsSB foldsIs this a correct Jam? CO is calling no matter what I've seen him continuously call big all ins with junk over and over so is this a good spo
I tried to find the closest ICM-solution in GtoWizard for this spot (I don't have the Elite subscription). I found one where:
- the field has 200 players
- 37% are left
- stacks on avg are 50bb
- stacks of involved players: CO 34bb, BTN 58bb, SB 61,5 BB, BB 37bb
... so not to far off
This is what Wiz thinks:

Since the stack of BB (and CO) are lower in reality I expect there will be a bit less non allin 3-bets and also fewer calls. But I think it's likely AJo will be a shove even with the real stacks.
The guy on the button is supposed to call your allin with:
- AA (calls pre for deception, TT-KK almost always 3-bet pre just like AK and AQo)
- ATs-AQs
- AJo
- ATo (65% of the time)
- KJs-KQs
- KQo (50% of the time)
- OJs (25%)
- 77-99 (if the didn't 3-bet pre)
- 66 (50% of the time)
He should fold 76% of his range, which includes hands like A9s, KTs, JTs, KJo
Yeah, shoving could be better, but it is obviously a profitable call getting like 7-1 immediate pot odds with a good hand. The money is fairly shallow, so not so worried about reverse implied odds. You make top pair and win chips from worse aces or worse jacks.
I mean you can definitely shortcut it like you already did and ask is AJo a profitable Jam vs the HJ. If so then ya go for it and expect a weighted flip vs CO with extra dead $ in the pot. I don't understand the 3B thing. If you're saying you want to 3BF to HJ when he jams with ~ TT+, AQs+, AK then sure I could be convinced that's possibly ok. If you want to jam any flop and want to stop the CO from realizing his equity with 45s,T9o, and other random trash, while also GII terrible some % of the time I'm less convinced and am fine just taking my 65/35 pre with extra dead $ in the pot.
I would jam here preflop. My standard preflop 3bet sizing OOP vs 3 players would be 12.6 bb's which would be half effective stack.
I get that CO will be calling with all PP's. But CO will also likely be calling with all AXs and probably A8+ and any two broadways and possible all SC's.
If some fish is always calling, it makes the shove worse, because you pick up more taking it preflop than ggi against his range.
Also, if you are always getting called, you bust out at least half the time. So I wouldn't take the risk and prefer flat calling, which is significantly cEV+.
I think I like the jam. If you were at 20BB it's a snap jam, but with this stack size it's on the cusp of being too big a jam for too a weak a hand. If CO is playing so many hands and their flatting range is so weak, I think this tips the scales.
You are picking up so many chips when they fold and you are probably flipping when they call.
This is fine as you've described the players. I mean sometimes you lose to 92s but what can you do.