It's time for a complete mental reset

Okay I came up with an idea that I'm toying with.

I've been trying to think of a way to refocus on the process and my enjoyment of the strategy of poker while ignoring the results, thinking that it would help me avoid the frustration that comes with bad results while I work through this bad run. The idea is to gamify the process. I would develop a scoresheet with goals related things I should be doing, or things I want to work on, and I would score myself in each tournament as I play a session. These would be things that are designed to improve my game anyway, as opposed to silly goals (like with a hand with 72o), so the hope is that I would improve my game in the process and good results would follow. But the key is to shift my focus to the process so that I have a bit of fun doing things in-game and not worrying about where I finish.

For example, the scoresheet could look something like this:

1) 3-bet preflop: 1 pt each
2) Flop x/raises: 3 pts each
3) Triple-barrel bluff: 10 points
4) Triple-barrel for value: 10 points
5) 150% pot river bluff : 8 points

And so on. Perhaps I could even have some preflop charts printed out and give myself a point every time I raise according to the charts.

There is obviously a risk that I would be incentivized to make moves for the sake of making moves, but I think that risk is somewhat minimized by the fact that there isn't actually a reward attached to it and I'm not competing against others for a higher score. But I will have to make sure that I review key spots where I do make moves to keep the risk under control.

Any ideas for things to include on the scoresheet?

What I mean by more gambly is that you're more likely to run into players that just want to gamble, which sucks you into playing big pots. All it takes is one guy at the table who doesn't care about the money (or plays like he doesn't care about the money), or is just there to have a good time, or whatever, and it drives up the variance. The structure of MTTs acts like a leveler, putting everyone on more of an even playing field in that respect.

With what you wrote, you should switch to cash. You don't seem to have the proper mindset to get better and win at tournaments. Online cash will allow you to play short, sporadic sessions and see an better rate of return which should help your play.

Imo, the cash players do pretty well early in the tournament with 100-300 bb stacks, so some of the learned skill will be transferable.

Or, simply accept that you are a rec player and play for enjoyment only.

Couldn't disagree with you more.

First of all, if I didn't have the right mindset I would have given up a long, long time ago.

Second, as I explained in my post I don't enjoy cash at all.

Then enjoy another 20 years with no sustained success.

Darth-Maul i can tell you are solid.... All i will say is if I am a break even player over my last 1000 tournaments and im legitimately probably the best poker player in the world.... i cant imagine what solid players like you feel like. I mean i can literally play perfectly (make big folds, get big bluffs through, steal pots) and then i just run queens into kings and then jacks into ace king and lose both.

I swear to god if i cant be winning due to this scam site algorithm you solid regs have no chance unless you have a boosted account

I swear to god i have been playing better than really anybody could possibly play and then it gets even crazier because they really have to cheat to get me out.. and it gets very obvious.

My point is if im playing literally better than phil ivey and im break even you solid decent players have no chance unless you get a boosted account.

I was watching an Ontario streamer the other day and he was complaining about "crazy run bad/downswing"...... it was literally my average day no exaggeration....... Bad runs for them are my average day.... run bad for me worse than normal is like yesterday where i lose 8/10 flips.... get it in pair over pair 4 times and lose 4 of them.... run kings into aces late tourney.... run queens into kings late in another. Then get setup with ridiculous run outs and have to make big folds

Do you make the effort to **** on other people's goals threads, or was there something about mine that triggered you?

You know absolutely nothing about me aside from the brief post I wrote here, and yet you think you can reach the conclusion that I don't have what it takes to succeed in tournaments and I should just quit. And you took the time to write that when you could have just ignored my thread and kept your unhelpful comments to yourself.

I can feel your frustration, believe me. But it's just an excuse to start blaming algorithms and bots. Here's my unsolicited advice:

1) Start with some modesty. There is no way you're playing perfectly, or "better than Phil Ivey." If you think you have nothing to learn, you will never succeed.

2) Take a step back and look at what's going on. Take a good, honest look. Take a break from playing and review your hand histories. Post hands in the tournament strategy thread for feedback. Listen to some poker podcasts.

I didn't start shitting on you until you shat on me. Your post stated you have had a 20 year unsuccessful poker career, a small bankroll, you are anti social, don't want to study, have limited time to play because of family life and location and discussed inventing a point system because " you want to have fun in game and don't care where you finish.". Did I miss something? Did I tell you to quit poker?

On line cash poker allows you to get up when you are ahead at anytime and allow you to finish ahead, which will increase your bankroll, before you employ your losing point system game.

I guess entertaining the idea of playing cash is just too big of a reset.

But **** off anyways.

You literally told me to quit tournaments because you don't think I have the mindset to succeed.

And yes, you missed a lot.

While you are in the right in this interaction, the fact of the matter is that not studying and inventing a system that rewards you for making plays that are likely spewing money in the games you play is not the mindset to succeed.

Having 1 on 1 coaching would be great idea imo, someone you think is good, looking at your stats/hh will very fast tell you what your missing. And time consuming aswell.

Gl in your grind.

OP - I think you've correctly settled on the idea of optimising your approach to poker for fun.

You're aware that you have limited time and so only play 250 tournaments a year. This means - as you experienced - that you will never see the fruits of your study since your results over a year, or even several years, are essentially entirely dictated by variance.

This shouldn't be discouraging if you accept it for what it is - you can still approach it as seriously as you like while accepting that your results are out of your control. Removing the study, playing your favourite games and setting mini games all seem like good adjustments to me in order for you to get the most enjoyment out of poker.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well in my post.

I didn't say I don't study. I said I have studied on and off over the years, and actually enjoyed poker more when I wasn't studying. I've recently started getting back into some studying, but at the same time I'm also realistic about how much time I can devote to it given my other responsibilities. I never stated anywhere that my goal is to become a professional. I fully accept that I am a recreational player.

Second, this is a temporary idea to shift my focus from outcome to process. Yes, there is a risk that I make bad plays in the process - which is why I said that I plan to review my hands to screen for mistakes. I also said that my goals will be the kinds of things I should be doing, not silly -ev plays just for shits and giggles. What I'm hoping this will help me do is to work on my play without the stress of worrying about individual tournament results.

This guy gets it 😉

Appreciate the input.

Take 2 months off of playing poker.

After 2 months you will either miss it and want to come back and play and will likely enjoy it again, or you will realize how much of a mental grind you were putting yourself through for no beneficial reason and find some other way to spend your time.

I've done that in the past when things got frustrating, but I only play once/week and every time I decide to take a break I find myself itching to play by the time the next weekend rolls around.

Presumably you are financially stable outside of poker. What poker goals do you have now? Do you want to move up in stakes? Do you want to be able to withdraw regularly and spend that money on something for yourself or your family? Do you just want to see bigger numbers in your online accounts and just let that money keep sitting there? 20 years ago, did you see yourself quitting your job and becoming a full time poker player?

Try this the next time you play. Whenever you go all-in, cover up the screen while the hand plays out so that you don't see it, and don't look at the hand history. You will either win, lose, or tie. How that result happens seems to be a trigger for you, so remove it as a variable in your level of enjoyment.

Appreciate the questions.

Poker is simply a hobby for me, but one that I hope(d) would become a source of side income. Some extra cash to help put two kids through university or take a trip more often than I can currently afford. I never had any dreams of becoming a pro.

I actually did try that a while back, but it really only helps if I'm playing high volume. Plus the all-ins are only a small part of the bad run I've been going through. It's the other stuff that's really getting to me, like raising QQ, getting 3 callers, and then facing an Axx flop over and over again. Or flopping a set and then having the board run out with 4 to a flush and 4 to a straight. Or draws that never seem to get there. Or I decide not to fire a second bullet and villain hits is gutter on the river. And so on, and so on. I know all these things are just part of the game, but when they all seem to be happening at a high frequency over a period of time, it's just demoralizing. It's devastating to my confidence too because it feels like every decision I make is wrong.

Brutal honesty: Based on what you've posted (your long term results, your current stakes, your current volume, etc.), you are probably destined to be a break-even-ish low-mid stakes mtt player in perpetuity.

So, then it boils down to, what are your priorities? If they are to make extra money for your family, then that will almost certainly need to be pursued outside of online tournament poker.

Good luck.

I'm not sure how you can say that so confidently. Yes I've been playing for a long time measured in number of years, but my volume is virtually nothing relatively speaking. If it's a volume and variance issue, there's no reason that couldn't change at any time. Of course that also means it could never change because I might just not play enough volume to overcome the variance before I die, but you simply can't conclude that I'm destined to be break-even.

I'm not sure if I agree with the guy who said that you are destined to be break-even, but his point is fairly valid. You say you've been playing for 20 years and have never experienced any sustained success, and have never ran well beyond random individual tournaments. You say you don't like to study, and when you do it's listening to podcasts. You say you don't have much time to devote to poker. All of that is super fair, but it adds up to kind of a middling weak-tight recreational player. If you're cool with that, then that's awesome, you've already won. Play the games that are comfortable for you, don't sweat the results beyond the normal fleeting highs and lows. If that's not what you want to be, I'd suggest you make changes that would effect change in your game.

There are ways to make money outside of online MTT's that are essentially guaranteed to work, such as finding a weekend side gig. If that extra money is your main goal, you will achieve it 100% of the time outside of online MTT poker.

The chances of you suddenly becoming a winning online MTT poker player are obviously much less than 100%. If you disagree with that, then there's probably nothing anyone can tell you here that differs from what you are stuck believing, so you might as well just keep doing you.

I'm absolutely confident in those two things.

In the end, much like poker, it comes down to odds and EV.

Good luck.