1-2-3 AKo shove preflop line check
Hero: AKo in LP
Villain 1 (MP): Older gentleman that’s played pretty TAG raises to 21
Villain 2 (MP+1): new gentleman to the table in his 40s calls
I shove for $240 total.
Should I 3B instead? I was thinking if I 3B to something like 3-4x that would be $80 plus the dead money in the middle ($40) = $120 and the pot on the flop would be around $360, my stack would be around $120 so a 1/3 pot-sized bet left for the flop wouldn't do anything if I miss, which will be 2/3 of the time. So I thought I'd just flip preflop since I have the best Ace, it's clear Villain 2, the caller doesn't have a strong pocket pair. The main negative I could see is that Villain 1 is then only playing top of their range against us in that situation (QQ+). Less likely he has Aces or Kings since we hold one of each...
Let me know your thoughts on my line of thinking
4 Replies
If you jammed for $240 total, you'd have $160 left after making it $80. Not $120. And the pot would be $160-$240 ($80 x 2 or 3), depending on whether one or both called, not $360.
It's enough of a difference to make a difference. Jamming $160 into $160-$240 is going to be more impactful than jamming $120 into $360.
It would be fine to 3B to $80, and then just jam any flop. It's also ok to just jam pre, but it looks exactly like AK, and some opponents just aren't laying down TT+. Since we're not that deep, flatting and seeing a flop IP is also fine. If the $21 open is large for the game, it's probably best to just flat call.
I wouldn't get too caught assuming both will call a 3B, and worrying about how big the pot will be going to the flop. It's at least as likely one or both will fold to the 3B.
I was thinking of making it $120. Am I correct in assuming if I 3B I should do 3-4x + the dead money in the middle from any calls? My logic was $80 + $21 (Villain1) + $21 (Villain2) = ~$120. Let me know if I should be raising to $80 instead and maybe my bet sizing is off.
You're right that I can't assume both will call. Most likely one person calls so the pot even with $120 preflop might be $240 and I'd still have $120 behind so a shove for 1/2 pot bet on any flop should still be okay. It does really look like AK, as you said.
$21 was pretty normal for the game. What cases do you think about flatting vs 3B AK? If you're IP you're more likely to flat vs 3B?
3bet or shove are both fine if you are planning to shove any flop. You probably get the same results -- better if you just shove and they call w/ a pair and you flop an A or K, because they might fold if you still have chips. The only bad thing about shoving is that dominated aces probably fold.
I was thinking of making it $120. Am I correct in assuming if I 3B I should do 3-4x + the dead money in the middle from any calls My logic was $80 + $21 (Villain1) + $21 (Villain2) = ~$120. Let me know if I should be raising to $80 instead and maybe my bet sizing is off.You're right that I can't assume both will call. Most likely one person calls so the pot even with $120 prefl
My normal raise size IP would be 3x, plus 1x per caller. So, mathematically, that would be $84 (3 x $21, + $21), but I'm not splitting hairs over the difference between a $20 open and a $21 open (though I would berate a reg for using $1 chips with a raise, and if a rec did it repeatedly, I'd find a way to humorously suggest he use a round number that avoids the dealer slowing down the game to make change). I'd just make it $80, or $85, not $120.
I could actually make an argument for raising to a smaller size, since we're IP, if the table is playing tight, and/or we're starting short stacked. We might make it $75, or in extreme cases, $60-$65.
Since we're only starting out $240 eff (assuming both V's have us covered), we could use a smaller size, and raise to $60-$75. If we make it $80, that's 1/3 our stack, and we'd be committing ourselves to call off the rest if either V jammed. Not that it's a bad thing to get stacks in with AK, but I don't like letting opponents know that they can shove or not and know what our response will be.
