Should hero check this hand down 3ways, or go for value/semi bluff?

This is where I jam on the turn. There are no flush draws and if Villain has a PP then so be it. As you noted a PP should be betting on the flop because so many overcards can change everything.

The hands I worry about are A5s/65s/44/33/22 which might not bet on the flop in order to suck people in or get BTN to bet and if BTN doesn't, to get you to bet turn.

Still, we are likely ahead and if not we have some chance of hitting a straight.

I like donking the flop.

Ya donking flop is for sure a thing. Probing turn like 1.5X because of stacks is a thing, check jamming flop is a thing.

If I'm button I probably always have Aces. But what does some random have?

I always think if this guy is gonna bluff why not just bluff the flop instead of 4xing the turn with 5bbs behind.

Its 100% a read thing now but if I was somehow in this exact spot which I would never be vs a complete unknown I would fold most of the time.

You get top pair (albeit a low one) and an openender OTF with a SPR of less than 2. Don't let two opponents that likely have 4 overcards take free cards here. Either bet something like half pot and get the rest in OTT if someone calls and no one raises.

As played: Instead of seeing monsters under the bed just shove on his 4bb. You will often have the best hand here, and if not you have a good chance of drawing out. Plus he will have hands like A2/A3s or even some other Ax with backdoor flushdraw that will call you (it's irrelevant ofc that a 2 hit the turn) It's probably 90-95% you won't get a better opportunity for doubling up and get a stack over 20bb, which definately will increase your chances of getting ITM.

Does anyone just open-rip it on the flop with our stack size? I do, as I would hate for the flop to check through and for any card 9 or above to peel off on the turn.

Yeh just rip the flop - might even get Ax to call it off with the gutshot.

For me this is definitely a stop 'n go spot on the flop. There are two villains here though so the chances that somebody has an overpair is decent especially since it was UTG who opened.

Still we can't have hit a much better flop. Also getting it on the flop increases are odds of winning if called by a better hand rather than waiting for the turn.

I think that's probably best-- a slight overbet but not by much and the pot is significant. 13 outs against an overpair that isn't 55/66/AA.

That 2 turn kills some of those outs. (That said, I think an overpair would have bet the flop.) Not sure how I'd proceed on the turn. Maybe just lead? Shoving is probably OK, we're just now in worse position when we are called.

I think I would lead around 2.8 BB on the flop for the following reasons:

1. Leading into two is a strong action and denying double overcard equity OOP with a small bet is an amazing result.
2. The bet is reasonably sized to put UTG's Ax in a tough spot, especially with BU yet to act behind.
3. The bet is small enough that A2s, A3s should always call, gaining value (although we can debate whether UTG, BU has these hands in their range).
4. You are very comfortable getting it in versus any raise on this flop.
5. There are plenty of favorable turns where you can jam for value/semi-bluff that puts a single flop caller in a very tough spot (for BU's tournament life and most of UTG's stack).

The worst outcome is if both UTG and BU call as this results in a 14.4 BB multi-way pot where you have no leverage with 7.2 BB behind. But even in this worst case, you still have straight, two pair, and trip outs, and it's not the end of the world to shut down and continue the tournament with 7.2 bigs. If you are behind on the flop, it is unlikely you will get away unscathed anyway.

I wouldn't jam the flop as I think all better hands would snap it off while almost all worse would fold.

Ya this is good maybe donk even smaller. And if you don't donk at least probe turn.

People want to jam because they don't want to be in a difficult spot and fair enough it can't be terrible to just jam but are we just jamming all our sets and 56s?

Also noones curious what BTN's flatting here with 11BB v an UTG raise. And we have absolutely 0 reads in what I imagine is a live tourney? These guys have played 0 hands? You can't tell us how old he is or literally anything at all?

Jamming turn is definitely an interesting option. I don't think either player has A5s/65s/44/33/22 very often, given the EP open and stack sizes in play. The only real concern is that the button has an overpair of some kind (perhaps even a slow played monster from preflop, given that the whole table is shortr stacked and he might have been trying to induce.

Sure, this is certainly a flop where the BB can consider donking/check-raising.

I don't like to donk as a general rule (preferring to check raise), as donks weaken our checking range and shrink our check-raising range. But maybe on boards like this there is something to be said for it.

Check-jamming the turn is definitely interesting. But it was more than I wanted to risk at that stage of the tournament. In hindsight, it was a good spot and I should have taken it.

Sure, donking is probably a good option on this board. I'm not sure how many worse hands can call if I jam it on the flop, but at least I get to fully realise my equity.

Perhaps this is a spot where the rules of theory can be broken a little?

So you mean check-jam flop would be your play? What about on the turn, after it has checked through?

So - how do I balance this jam with value/bluffs?

Agreed that overpairs are almost always betting the flop, for both opponents.

Interesting points, thanks. Definitely true that betting flop puts UTG in a difficult 'sandwiched' spot with his overcard hands.

I mean I definitely can't fold facing a jam on the flop, but I'm not sure it's that "comfortable" - I'm about 44% vs an overpair for my tournament life.

Agreed that if both were to call and I missed the turn, I could retain the rest of my stack and hope to spin it up if I had to fold this hand.

I would just jam the flop first to act. There are going to be a lot of turns where we won't know if we are ahead or not. And some turns where we won't get called because it is likely that we will be way ahead. Stop n' go to me is calling from a blind and jamming the flop. Though it is less effective against two players than one. Here though we smashed the flop with no overcards. There are times in spots like these that I lose to 66/77/88 but so be it.

As played on the turn I would lead out jam. A very small bet will induce calls which won't be good for us again because overcards will make it difficult. If we bet 3 bb's or more we are betting > 30% effective stack.

Yeah good point, I'm definitely not jamming sets and 56s on this flop.

Really unsure what button was flatting with. My concern in the hand was with smaller overpairs that are going to snap me off if I jam the turn. Also, he can be trapping preflop with two short stacks in the blinds who can jam (but that's admittedly fairly unlikely).

It was the beginning of day 2, and there were new tables made at the start of the day, so I only had perhaps 30 hands on the button by the time this came around. He had jammed once previously facing an open is the only significant thing I remember. Seemed pretty tight and like a thinking type of player, and also pretty smart, like he had some knowledge of theory. He was around 30 years old, glasses, little scruffy.

Okay thanks. And what are the range of hands that you're doing this with?

Yes there are certainly times when you lose to 66/77/88, as well as any overpairs that UTG might be protecting his checking range with, particularly AA - but I agree that this doesn't happen as often as it should in live tournaments.

When I am short stacked and call in the BB my stop 'n go is basically anything that I have a good draw with or a pair. Typically with a set or two pair I will c/r all in in order to make better money. Though there are times I balance my 2 pairs by jamming and if the board is draw heavy especially monotone I will jam with sets and all 2 pairs.

Here I would be jamming on the flop with 55+/5x(but not 65/A5)/6x/4x/3x/2x. Otherwise I just check.

Without getting too literal on the word comfortable (I mean, who is ever comfortable in an all-in until after the river is dealt... )

Assuming there was BB ante, from the flop, you are calling 10 BB to win 27. So in that sense, it is very comfortable +EV call versus overpairs. I also feel it's much easier to play multiway OOP pots with a reasonable donk bluff frequency, as it enables far more straightforward play with your value compared to a range check. Hands like bottom set, 43s really want to bet here.

Also, Villain(s) should be far less comfortable 3-bet jamming non-connecting overpairs as they are never called by much worse, but could be drawing close to dead. It's possible for them to have far less than 44% equity versus your donk range, and they likely won't be able to estimate it accurately in a low volume live setting.

That said, probably don't do this in a low buy-in live MTT where Villain(s) entire thought process is "I have 8's and flop was lower than 8's. Time to jam." In such case, probably just check/call and get value when you hit and fold when you miss. In most cases, you should be able to tell whether Villain(s) are in this category, even with low sample size.