1/3 set vs fish donk
1/3 9 handed
Villain1 is aggro fish, does non standard lines, overvalues hands, can't find the fold button. Like to bluff/value big on river.
Villain2 is passive in general, I've seen him before play from full stack(500+) to small stack, from calling lots of preflop raises then check/fold check/fold flops. After he goes to shortstack, he starts bluffing and fight for pots.
Hero super tight image
Effective stacks 400.
Preflop
Utg(nit) opens 20, V1 calls in mp, Hero in mp+1 calls w/tt(would you squeeze?) V2 calls in co, Btn calls
Pot 103
Flop QT8cc, utg checks V1 bet 25? Hero? What sizing is good here?
You have to make it at least 100 to the small bet on the wet board.
$100 is good, I might even go $125, but I don't want to scare V1 too much. I don't mind the flat pre to basically set mine if this guy is really a nit.
So many hands have to continue and there’s a chance someone cold calls or raises behind. I would make it 125 and shove most turns.
PRE - 3B to $60, if not $70-$80.
UTG's $20 open seems large, but he's already got a call, so we want to squeeze that dead money and shut out the players behind us, rather than invite them to come along.
FLOP - do we have the Tc in our hand, or is it on board? Either way, we're either way ahead or way behind. Not sure we need to raise huge here. Think I'd just make it $75, and prepare to fold if anyone 3B's.
Not sure, but I also wonder if a call is okay here. I wonder if our opponents aren't mostly drawing, and holding each others' outs, such that we don't mind flatting and no one folding.
If we're behind a flopped straight, I suppose we would rather pot control and hope to see a cheap turn or river, then turn up the aggression if we boat up.
I think flatting preflop is okay. Especially given that the nit raised utg.
Iād make it 100 and pray no one flopped a straight, looking to gii on any turn blanks.
Hero raise to 100
V2 overcalls??
V1 calls
Pot 403
Turn 9 all check, or you guys want to bet?
River 3 V2 bets 150, Fish calls, Hero?
3b pre, raise flop, as played check back turn, sigh fold riv
Gross. Just, gross. However, I'm not sure I can fold the river. Is V2 in fight-for-stacks mode or passive/value mode? Seems as if V1 would shove river if he had a J.
Actually, seems as if one of them would have bet the turn w/ a straight.
Seems fine. River is an easy call.
having the tc vs no tc could change our sizing decision on flop, but raise in the $80 -125 range seems normal; Hero wants to set up for natural turn shove
river call seems marginal but fine,
I don't think having the aggro-fish's money in the middle (especially if he doesn't have a fold button) offers us enough incentive to 3-bet with TT against a nit's UTG x7 raise, especially when stacks are less than 150BB effective.
Did you stop reading there, or did you read the rest?
"UTG's $20 open seems large, but he's already got a call, so we want to squeeze that dead money and shut out the players behind us, rather than invite them to come along."
Hero is in MP. Yes, we can flat call. But that's going to all but guarantee we'll be going to the flop multi-way, unless someone behind us squeezes, in which case when action gets back to us we'll be severely compressing our range if we flat call again.
I'm fine with preflop versus a nit large EP open.
SPR is 4 and board is quite drawy and we have middle set. I'd feel committed and look to get in stacks over just two streets. Against a donk with no fold button, I'd probably go like $125 to setup a reasonable $255 jam into a $350 pot on most turns.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Did you stop reading there, or did you read the rest?"UTG's $20 open seems large, but he's already got a call, so we want to squeeze that dead money and shut out the players behind us, rather than invite them to come along."Hero is in MP. Yes, we can flat call. But that's going to all but guarantee we'll be going to the flop multi-way, unless someone behind us squeezes, in whic
Are we not concerned about a 4! from a UTG nit opening for near 7X? That's why I'd be overcalling, even though you're right and it'll go grossly MW. I'd hate to throw away TT. Ofc, maybe they're enough of a nit they'll dump QQ/JJ to a 3!?
Taking tens multiway when there’s a large utg open is fine. 3b against a range of AQ+ JJ+ doesn’t seem so appealing, especially against the part of that range that continues.
Spoiler
Hero folded
V2 shows KJ for a straight
V1 mucks
The fish actually asked if I had a set. Surprised he can actually put me on hands.
In retrospect, maybe raise to 125-150 on flop is a bit better to try to get it headsup with the fish.
Thank you, but I do understand how preflop poker betting works.
Maybe don't respond to people who offer differing opinions if you're feeling too defensive about your own opinions to be civil.
No idea what you mean, when my reply was completely courteous. But I could say the same thing to you, as you seem to be pretty thin skinned when someone disagrees with you.
Are we not concerned about a 4! from a UTG nit opening for near 7X? That's why I'd be overcalling, even though you're right and it'll go grossly MW. I'd hate to throw away TT. Ofc, maybe they're enough of a nit they'll dump QQ/JJ to a 3!?
Getting 4B if we raise is a possibility. Going multi-way if we flat call is am almost certainty. If we flat, we're playing bingo. If we raise, we're playing poker.
Hero raise to 100
V2 overcalls??
V1 calls
Pot 403
Turn 9 all check, or you guys want to bet?
River 3 V2 bets 150, Fish calls, Hero?
Yeesh, that's a pretty gross turn card.
Think you did the right thing by raising flop and checking back turn. I'd have a hard time folding river, absent a fairly confident read V is never bluffing or betting worse for value. If he made it $250, it's a snap fold.
Getting 4B if we raise is a possibility. Going multi-way if we flat call is an almost certainty. If we flat, we're playing bingo. If we raise, we're playing poker.
When the options are: 1) Play bingo IP with a face up nit and an aggrofish (that is still only calling here. Which should be a clue about the nit's perceived range), for a 20th of our stack.
2) Bloat the pot to over 160 if one calls, when we'll have only 320 back, killing the value of our position. And that's the best case scenario! Often, even a nit will find a 4! there, and we get to fold Tens after setting another 60 bucks on fire over just calling. They'll often call with stuff crushing us, as you know.
OOP, or we have like A5s, KK+---"Yay! They 4!'d!!"---ATo, etc...or it isn't a nit opening this big? Sure, love it. Aggression is good.
I just think though, those above factors outweigh pounding on a nit, whose range is what? AQo+ AJs+, JJ+? We're a 60/40 dog, and I'm likely being expansive with their UTG range. Now, they may fold a lot of that to a 3!, in which case, yep fire away too. But we'd have to do some more math, and IME, a lot of those nits get entitlement tilt, and will not fold their beautiful Broadway PP pf. Like Venice keeps reminding me. They didn't drive here to drink this bad coffee and fold good hands.
AP, I like 100-125 on the flop, awful turn ofc. Not folding to an action-closing river bet of 150 into a pot of 700. I read the results.
My "Thou Shalt Thinly Value-Bet The River," instinct wants to shove for what, another 130? They haven't acted at all like they have a straight. Serve them right if you boated up River. But then this wouldn't be a thread.
Asking someone who disagrees with you if they actually read your full reply, "or did you stop reading there?" is either blatantly hostile or patronizingly arrogant.
I'm not sure how else to explain it to you. I'm trying to be as literal as I can be.
Asking someone who disagrees with you if they actually read your full reply, "or did you stop reading there" is either blatantly hostile or patronizingly arrogant.
I'm not sure how else to explain it to you. I'm trying to be as literal as I can be.
I asked you if you stopped reading because you only quoted a portion of my post, omitting the part where I provided my reasoning for the part you quoted.
