President Elon Musk
He probably deserves his own thread at this point, discuss accordingly
I'm sure you want political spectrum to be this personal subjective thing when its convenient for your arguments but its not and AFD is objectively far right on the global scale
Well that’s like your opinion man
I'm sure you want political spectrum to be this personal subjective thing when its convenient for your arguments but its not and AFD is objectively far right on the global scale
especially on the global scale, it's truly moronic to claim a party headed by a lesbian can be "right-wing", when 1.5 billion indians wouldn't even imagine having a leftist party headed openly by a lesbian (they just had the first openly gay *spokesman* for a minor party) and when the median indian is far more racist than the median AFD voter is . racist as in actual "I am disgusted by inferior races living nearby" racist.
India legalized homosexuality in... 2018. that's 1.5 billion people right there.
the most far right party in Europe is a radical leftist one in India on the culture ok? so keep that in mind when you think "global". then consider that Indonesia and Pakistan are probably even more socially conservative than India and that 500m more people.
then keep in mind divorce isn't legal in the Philippines (another 100m+ ppl).
and historically, another you know tool to gauge stuff, go back in 1992 and try to claim an open lesbian leads a far right party and see the reactions.
now is AFD "very to the right" on social issues within continental Europe? yes.
on the right on economics? not particularly no.
so the only uncontroversial claim about AFD being far right requires you to compare only within continental Europe, only in the present, and only for social issues.
objectively if you move just 40 years in the past AFD stances on immigration were supermajoritarian in all continental Europe.
if you move on a "global scale" well more than half the world population is clearly more racist than AFD, more anti immigration, and in general more socially conservative.
and on the economy the AFD is objectively to the left of the American democratic party.
Why stop at 40 years ago, what about 80?
And I would assume the global political spectrum is about various types of governments and not propensity of population under said governments but sure, I guess
Why stop at 40 years ago, what about 80?
And I would assume the global political spectrum is about various types of governments and not propensity of population under said governments but sure, I guess
because a ton of people alive today were alive 40 years ago (actually a majority, in continental Europe) and definitions shouldn't change quicker than population is replaced, given semantics depend on the people using words and people tend to stick to specific meanings.
I know your side wants to change the meaning of words very frequently to control the narrative but that's not how linguistics work.
if you believe something can be far right today but not in 1995 or 1988 well then that's... your opinion. certainly it isn't a uncontroversial claim.
and back to the topic if grok does like liberals do, and accepts liberal semantics, that's a huge problem and it isn't "evidence" of anything other than it being biased in favor of liberals.
I'm sure you want political spectrum to be this personal subjective thing when its convenient for your arguments but its not and AFD is objectively far right on the global scale
especially on the global scale, it's truly moronic to claim a party headed by a lesbian can be "right-wing", when 1.5 billion indians wouldn't even imagine having a leftist party headed openly by a lesbi
So when you claim you are far right, do you actually mean you are a radical leftist?
Or do you mean you are far right like india?
He means he's off the scale and wants millions of people murdered for crimes they commit. Even China and Saudi Arabia don't execute people for the sort of offences Luciom would.
especially on the global scale, it's truly moronic to claim a party headed by a lesbian can be "right-wing",
Dutch nationalist anti immigrant party Pim Fortuyn List was headed by a black immigrant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_...)
Stephen Miller is Jewish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mi...
In November 2019, the Southern Poverty Law Center acquired more than 900 emails Miller sent Breitbart News writer Katie McHugh between 2015 and 2016. The emails became the basis for an exposé that showed that Miller had enthusiastically pushed the views of white nationalist publications such as American Renaissance and VDARE, as well as the far-right conspiracy website Infowars, and promoted The Camp of the Saints, a French novel circulating among neo-Nazis, shaping both White House policy and Breitbart's coverage of racial politics.[88][89][90][91] I
Mongolia has neo Nazi skinheads
By your rationale, it's utterly moronic to label these examples as right wing?
He means he's off the scale and wants millions of people murdered for crimes they commit. Even China and Saudi Arabia don't execute people for the sort of offences Luciom would.
Fortunately for the world, the only power Lucy has is picking from a choice of two dinner options cooked by his caretakers.
Dutch nationalist anti immigrant party Pim Fortuyn List was headed by a black immigranthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_...)Stephen Miller is Jewishhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mi...Mongolia has neo Nazi skinheads
By your rationale,it would be utterly moronic to claim Miller (or anyone who likes him) is antisemite yes, because that's literally impossible
or that Fortuyn was a white supremacist (again literally, a white supremacist wouldn't associate with none whites definitionally).
if the Mongolian skin heads held actually very right wing positions you can call them very right-wing.
see, it's very easy.
now back to AFD, their positions aren't very extremist at all, except when compared with the insanely radical leftist shift continental Europe had very recently.
it's continental Europe that moved far left vs the rest of the world and the recent past, with AFD being a very vanilla European centrist party 40 years ago.
So when you claim you are far right, do you actually mean you are a radical leftist
Or do you mean you are far right like india
I claim I am far right on economics because basically no place on earth has anything resembling the model I want for economics so I admit I am in a minority.
to explain, for me Milei is a moderate. my model is a country where anyone with power is at least as right-wing as Milei and many are far more to the right of him.
I want complete constitutional bans in the unmodifiable parts of the constitution on most of what the state is allowed to do right now in most countries.
like a ban on the state owning or controlling directly or indirectly any productive asset even in emergency with no exception allowed and no amendment allowed.
a complete limit on fiscal pressure at 10-15% of income (and a complete ban on wealth taxes) on the most taxed individual in the country.
that makes me an actual extremist on those topics so yes I am FAR right.
now what does AFD asks that in the last 100+ years worldwide only a tiny minority of groups or individuals asked for? what makes it actually extremist in time and geography?
nothing at all
it would be utterly moronic to claim Miller (or anyone who likes him) is antisemite yes, because that's literally impossibleor that Fortuyn was a white supremacist (again literally, a white supremacist wouldn't associate with none whites definitionally).if the Mongolian skin heads held actually very right wing positions you can call them very right-wing.see, it's very easy.now
I’m not sure where u put communist but they should be far left right ?
Or do you have another term ?
And now you tell us , lately Europe was similar to the old Soviet Union being far left ?
I think it’s your compass that is all mixed up …..
Dutch nationalist anti immigrant party Pim Fortuyn List was headed by a black immigranthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_...)Stephen Miller is Jewishhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mi...Mongolia has neo Nazi skinheads
By your rationale,Hitler was an immigrant who feared deportation.
I’m not sure where u put communist but they should be far left right ?
Or do you have another term ?
And now you tell us , lately Europe was similar to the old Soviet Union being far left ?
I think it’s your compass that is all mixed up …..
we are talking cultural left/right here as AFD isn't accused by anyone to be far right on the economics as far as I know.
we are talking being against abortion (which btw, let me remind you, is illegal in Germany right now) , against most immigration, and being islamophobic.
the German secret services labeled it extremist because of "islamophobia" and "xenophobia". and "anti-minority".
so let me tell you this, which is quite obvious to anyone in Europe: those are traits that were super majoritarian among Europeans until very recently and are still the norm worldwide.
most countries worldwide today consider their own citizens , the ethnic groups that make up their citizenry, as superior to ethnic groups elsewhere. china does that, south Korea does that, India does that, Pakistan does that, Japan does that, Kenya does that, Ghana does that, get the picture?
most non Islamic countries display widespread hatred of Islam.
islamophobia is not "extremism"; it's the normal historical reaction worldwide against a religion that underpinned imperial conquest and colonialism and attempts to conquer you.
Europe fought a millenarian war against Islam. from the reconquista to lepanto. we had crusades. we had Venice sacking Istanbul. the Islamic world was simply our enemies since "forever".
ottomans raped pillaged and enslaved countless numbers of eastern Europeans.
it is not only not extremist, but rather normal and in some sense mandatory if you actually feel European to be militantly against Islam, at the identity level. treating Islam as the enemy is a core value of European history.
and very importantly, Nazism was not islamophobic, it rather allied with Islam in it's pursuit of the Holocaust.
now current day feeling among the "Bien pensants" can be different as much as they want, but they are those who changed culturally, not AFD (or wilders, or the Italian lega and so on) which represents a very normal very non extremist preference against Islam.
labeling a position against Islam, for a European party, as extremist is simply an historical and cultural lie, and labeling it as far right is an heinous lie because Nazism was pro Islam more than most other cultural movement were in continental Europe, and because the far left was historically anti Islam (as it was anti all major religions).
the USSR treated Islam very harshly, it closed mosques , banned religious education, banned pilgrimages to the mecca for USSR citizens.
secular leftist France banned the burqa. Belgium as well.
how completely in bad faith can someone be today to call being against Islam in europe a far right position?
more generally, hating is not extremism. hating is a very normal emotion for human beings, a very commonplace occurrence, and focusing hatred as a political tool is a very common phenomenon.
what's extremism is actually to deny hatred as any part to play in politics
it would be utterly moronic to claim Miller (or anyone who likes him) is antisemite yes, because that's literally impossibleor that Fortuyn was a white supremacist (again literally, a white supremacist wouldn't associate with none whites definitionally).if the Mongolian skin heads held actually very right wing positions you can call them very right-wing.see, it's very easy.now
No. First of all you said right wing. Secondly it's very possible for Jews to be self hating or white supremacist. It's also possible for black people to be anti immigration . It is very possible for minorities to have extremist far right views.
Weidel is no different and the afd would only be centrist compared to you.
You're utterly wrong on this issue.
We do have to give Luciom some credit for his indefatigable efforts at being completely wrong on nearly every single issue.
we are talking cultural left/right here as AFD isn't accused by anyone to be far right on the economics as far as I know.we are talking being against abortion (which btw, let me remind you, is illegal in Germany right now) , against most immigration, and being islamophobic. the German secret services labeled it extremist because of "islamophobia" and "xenophobia". and "anti-min
What does that have anything to do with the Soviet Union of past decades ?
There is almost 0 common ground with Europe today and Russia 1970-80s and that is not about economics either …
That is what u called Europe today , far left …..then what is communist ?
I swear to you , even non economic related , I rather live a thousand life’s in present Europe then in the Soviet Union era of 50s-90s ….i mean even after or before that time period .
So I have no idea wtf u taking about when u speak about Europe being far left …
I can’t believe I have to tell that to a « libertarian »….
No. First of all you said right wing. Secondly it's very possible for Jews to be self hating or white supremacist. It's also possible for black people to be anti immigration . It is very possible for minorities to have extremist far right views.
Weidel is no different and the afd would only be centrist compared to you.
You're utterly wrong on this issue.
No we were talking far right, extremist for AFD.
No it is not possible for a jew to be a white supremacist. At most a jew could be a jew+whites supremacist. Unless we invent labels and jews are white ofc.
Ofc it's possible for black people to be anti-immigration, they were for a long time in the USA, they are in most african countries.
AFD isn't extremist (unless compared to 2025 continental european median) either historically or worldwide.
Being very against immigration is NORMAL FOR HUMAN BEINGS lol. Today as well globally. Being very against mass immigration of people of another religion is NORMAL FOR HUMAN BEINGS. Normal. typical, common.
You can say that's bigoted, you can say that's "bad", you can dislike that as much as you want, but it's the set of preferences that the vast majority of human beings who ever lived agreed with.
How can be something shared by the vast majority of human beings that ever lived be "extremist" ?
Yes it is as Miler shows. There was also Dan Burros, a neo Nazi who committed suicide when a news article exposed him as being Jewish So no it's not impossible at all for a Jewish person to be white supremacist. Jeff Weisse was a native American neo nazi mass shooter. Danyal Hussein was a neo Nazi Satanist murderer.
Afd is indeed extremist and my point was, which I've proved several times over is that again minorities can and do have extremist views. So again you're totally wrong on this issue.
Yes it is as Miler shows. There was also Dan Burros, a neo Nazi who committed suicide when a news article exposed him as being Jewish So no it's not impossible at all for a Jewish person to be white supremacist. Jeff Weisse was a native American neo nazi mass shooter. Danyal Hussein was a neo Nazi Satanist murderer.Afd is indeed extremist and my point was, which I've proved s
which AFD preferences, claims, attitudes are extremist compared to the globale average?
Stop moving goalposts that's twice you've done this now. They're considered extremists by normal people. Far right people aren't normal so your opinion has no merit.
What? That's 80% of his game. You can't cripple him like that. What would he have left to post?
Stop moving goalposts that's twice you've done this now. They're considered extremists by normal people. Far right people aren't normal so your opinion has no merit.
Cordie used explicitly the "global scale" reference and i answered to that explicitly. Check above.
"normal people" worldwide don't consider being anti immigration extremism.
What? That's 80% of his game. You can't cripple him like that. What would he have left to post?
jfc cordie said "on a global scale" and i responded to that. He said "AFD is objectively far right on the global scale".
To that i answered that no, objectively it isn't. To which here corpus asks why i make global comparison and i move goalposts .
I already wrote vs continental european PRESENT preferences, AFD is rightwing on the culture. It isn't on a global scale and it isn't compared to what were the preferences in continental europe 40 years ago.
ah btw corpus btw even just on an *american* (USA) scale, AFD isn't extremist at all, being to the left of Trump (similar on the culture, to the left on the economics) , a candidate who won the popular vote (so definitionally not an extremist, in his country).
