Floor ruling on uncalled all in dealer mistake

Seems pretty awful to me, though I'm biased because I don't think the place I work would ever make such a ruling, nor would I ever find myself in the place of the dealer or the AI player. My big problem is the ruling is likely subjective based on the hand the AI player showed. Would this ruling occur if they showed AA? I highly doubt it.

Assuming UTG didn't do anything with chips or verbally to indicate a call, then IMO UTG should get to take their action, fold or call the AI. Player responsibilities like knowing the action to you & protecting your hand don't necessarily disappear due to dealer error. Dealer should not announce it as "okay flip em", that's unprofessional. My way is typically announcing "call, all-in and a call, action is closed, open hands". Kind of verbose, but does avoid mistaken actions a lot of the time.

Wow that is a bad ruling. If the player announced all in, or he put all his chips over the line, then this is binding, and can not be reversed.

He is clearly all in.

So now that he flipped over his hand after the dealer asked him to he is to blame himself, because he has to follow the game.
He should know that the other player is not allin, and ask, if the player is allin.

So basically the utg player can now decide what he wants to do..it is a freeroll for him.

I understand that the floorman wants to create some kind of justice by correcting the dealers misstake, and minimize the players losses, but what if he player now flopps quads?

Utg will still benefit from seeing the hand, can easily fold, and still damage is produced.

It comes down to one thing:

- player has to follow the game at all times and ask if he is not sure, and act acording to that, no matter what anyone else says, even the dealer.

All in is binding, hand is flipped. Utg can now decide if he wants to call ...period.
Dealer should get a headsup, and be forced to go on break, so the players see that the dealer got some sort of speech.

Being a professional, and playing poker for a living for almost two decades,
let me add something here and give some people an advice that I believe is very valuable and will boost your winrate,
no matter if you are a pro, becoming pro or you are just playing for fun:

This is related to the example above:
Two ways of approaching this:

1. Many players would blame the dealer in this situation. The players who do that, see the dealer and the floorman as a source of authority regarding decisions.

If you are a fun player, then this is fine.
We all know, you should not gamble with money you can not afford to lose. It is selfexplaining that you should not care,
how the dealers and floormen rule, because you are just there to splash some flakes. (Entertainment) If the money MATTERS to you well then you should either not play instead of complaining, or take a different approach:

2. The different approach is to look at things as professional as possible, (even when you're NOT playing for a living) according to your private schedule obv. (You can only do so much)
A pro player will NEVER look at the dealer or the floorman as a source of authority, when it comes to ruling and decision-making!
Not because he is arrogant, but because he takes full responsibility when he sits down and plays for money that MATTERS.
Seeing things like in example no 1 means you give your power away. Which is fine for enter-tain-ment, (a passive process), and when you don't care, but not if the money matters.
If you are not a professional, but money matters to you, but at the same time you blame others for your own mistake of being unfocussed, then you behave like a child that needs care, and it is time to man up.

A pro knows that situations like the one above, can hurt their winrate and income, so they will always try to be focused, aware and in power, and not blame it on the dealer and handle it with grace if they fked up.

An example:
The famous TV hand between Tom Dwan and Wesley 3.1M $ in the pot.
Take a look at Toms reaction when the dealer announces that Wesley is allin, and you will immediately see the difference between a pro and an amateur. Also notice that Tom is looking at him, when Wesley announces the action. So Tom knows already.

When I saw that the first time, I knew instantly. As a pro you pay a lot of (bloodmoney) in your career in situations like these, when you don't pay attention, or handle situations lightly and things start to turn into a weird mess at the table. Some players (angle shooters) just wait for you to not pay attention, and basically scam you.
Imagine Tom called instantly, and then Wesley said: "No I wasn't allin". Now here there is camera footage, but what if there was no cams? If it is late and everyone is tiered? If people have collusion going on and team up.

This advice should make you more sharp at the tables. GL

Bad ruling. UTG gets a free roll. Dealer gets write up to pay attention to the game.

Blinds were large and we were at two shorthanded tables. I did not catch exact amounts but the AI was around 3x the pot. UTG was big stack and covered AI.

AI shoved 77. UTG had a9 sooted. Ace on the river....

I do not believe the floor knew what player has showed before he made the ruling.

I don't think I have ever seen a ruling like this. Almost always when a dealer makes a mistake that costs a player, the game continues as played. When a player turns their hand over early then we play on. I get that in this situation the player should not receive a penalty for turning over their hand early because it wasn't totally their fault, but still play on.

When there is a ruling made by a Floor that I believe is fundamentally wrong I will ask for the Tournament Director to be called over to verify the ruling. Sometimes the TD will actually come over...

When a dealer makes a mistake that costs one player but not the other(s) then so be it. The rules must be followed. As was noted above because the player said all in before turning over their cards it is an all in situation. If UTG has a hand like 99+ that is always calling an all in by a short stack then UTG is being penalized for a mistake made by the Dealer (and then another mistake by the all-in player).

The other reason the rules must be followed (that the all in stands) is that there are other players affected by the ruling not just the two players in the hand.

What makes this ruling extraordinarily bad is the disability for the players to bet after the flop. If the all in player had just called the flop then both players need to have the right to bet post flop if they hit their hands and want the other player to fold (or make a bad call).

One of the reasons I have been reading posts here for the past 19 years is that it helps me to understand how to protect my hand in unusual situations. What UTG did was exactly along those lines trying to help the all in shover from exposing his hand. And still there are situations where there is nothing you can do to protect your hand and your action.

The one thing I would note is that during the next break I would talk to the Tournament Director about what happened and ask him to train his Floors not to break the rules because a dealer made a mistake.

All in player hears the guy say he hasn’t called and flips his hand over anyway?

I’m just letting the all in stand and the utg can make the decision accordingly. Dealer gets a write up. All in player gets a warning to protect his hand.

I don’t believe player heard the UTG but that was the order of events. I was next to AI and I heard him and saw he had not called yet. AI player generally says very little, telegraphs his future actions before his turn and is a first level thinker..

How is he getting a freeroll when he has no more actions to make?

Because UTG would have to decide whether to call the all-in or fold while having seen his opponent's hand.

He spoke up and said "I haven’t called yet" before the hand was tabled.

Action on utg.

WTF? Why is he ruling without knowing what happened?
Write up for the floor.

It was ruled to be just a call, not all-in.

You were answering to venice10 who just suggested a better ruling. Based on the suggested ruling, there's still an action to take.

Venice10 made one very short post and didn't suggest anything. Don't know what you're talking about.

You really can't figure out that he is suggesting that the
all-in should stand and utg get to decide whether to call or fold?

Not to mention that the next sentence is: "Dealer gets write up to pay attention to the game."

These are clearly suggestions for what should happen, not what did.

In all the time I've been reading this forum, I've never seen someone say that someone else gets a freeroll in their preferred solution.

I also don't think he gets a freeroll if the all-in stands. He definitely will lose chips with one decision, and the other decision could cost him more.

A freeroll is a situation in which one player can't lose, but he might win.

[?] Bad ruling.

[ ] UTG gets a free roll.

[x] Dealer gets write up to pay attention to the game.

You are right. Freeroll = You can't lose, but potentially win.

I think the freeroll term is more related to the fact that the utg is allowed to see and decide on something that he usually wouldn't be allowed to see. He gets it for free, and is now able to dodge (almost losing around 85%) vs potentially winning in a -EV spot in case the allin player holds AA for example.

If utg is ahead then it is definity an equity freeroll.

-EV = fold
+EV = call
And he can perfectly decide