Does anyone know what this means in the WSOP Terms of Service
6.13 As the End User, You acknowledge that certain games and tournaments, which are included in the Services, are offered or may be offered upon Company's sole discretion to You on a "shared basis" which enables the Company to bring together users of the Services with other people who are not users of the Services. In such cases, You accept that You may play with or against other users, who may have different configurations to Your own, this includes but is not limited to different bet limits. You agree that, at the Company's sole discretion, You may be pooled into these shared games and tournaments and that, to the extent that You breach this Agreement, the Company shall have the right to suspend You from playing on any games and tournaments.
https://www.wsop.com/legal/terms-conditi...
Who are the "non users" that have "different configurations to your own"??.
If I'm playing in a cash game or tournament, everyone at the table has the same bet limits, so I'm confused at this example that they gave of the "different configuration".
I called customer service to ask and they said that they would send an email to me after it was escalated because the customer rep didn't know.
6 Replies
7.1 In the interests of fair play it is prohibited to utilize any recognized betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in Our games.
Does this mean we aren't allowed to win and there's a house edge?
And the verbage in the OP about facing "non-users" with "different configurations" sounds like we're signing on to play bots, superusers or algorithms.. In court, I'm sure they would point to the vague paragraph in the OP and say that we signed up for it by downloading the software and signing the terms of service - that's why it's there.
7.1 In the interests of fair play it is prohibited to utilize any recognized betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in Our games.Does this mean we aren't allowed to win and there's a house edge?And the verbage in the OP about facing "non-users" with "different configurations" sounds like we're signing on to play bots, superusers or algorithms.. In court, I'm s
All just legal shite, but I would like to say it is refreshing that someone took the time to read the Ts and Cs so well done.
The part about betting techniques is just ensuring you use your own skill to play the game and covering their asses against anything devised to beat the game by other means. ie. live example would be if you are suspected of card counting in BlackJack.
As for the OP I suspect it relates to the fact the games are pooled with players from different States who have different regulations such as betting limits and so on.
All of what I posted is just my opinion and I am by no means an expert on these things so feel free to shoot me. As for super users, how on earth can one sign up to playing against them? How could the poker room explain that one in court?
The Company is licensed and regulated by the Nevada Gaming Control Board of the State of Nevada for the purposes of operating and offering real-money Internet-based and mobile application-based interactive poker services (the "Gambling Services" or "Services").
^^^ This is to establish what "Services" means in the Terms of Service.... "Services" is the gaming app itself, and therefore "users of the Services" are people that log on and play poker (only poker).
All of what I posted is just my opinion and I am by no means an expert on these things so feel free to shoot me.
Your opinion and response is greatly appreciated... It deserves a medal, not a bullet lol
All just legal shite, but I would like to say it is refreshing that someone took the time to read the Ts and Cs so well done.
The part about betting techniques is just ensuring you use your own skill to play the game and covering their asses against anything devised to beat the game by other means. ie. live example would be if you are suspected of card counting in BlackJack.
So you're claiming that it's legal shite, but poker isn't blackjack - there isn't supposed to be a "house edge" in poker, so I don't see the need to say that there's a "house edge" when there shouldn't be.... The terms or service that I linked in the OP is for poker only, yet it says there's a house edge, and it says that betting techniques aren't allowed to overcome this edge.
As for the OP I suspect it relates to the fact the games are pooled with players from different States who have different regulations such as betting limits and so on.
So you're saying that the phrase "people that are not users of the Service" simply means players from other states.
I don't think this is possible because they would just say "players from other states" if that's what they meant... They wouldn't say "people who are not users of the Services" (aka non-users) because players from other states ARE users... They agree to the same terms of service posted on the WSOP website (linked in the OP)... And when I'm playing a cash game or tourney, everyone at the table has the same betting limits, so that isn't valid either... Accordingly, "non-users" can't be referring to someone from another state that logs on to the poker app and plays poker, since that's the definition of a user... Therefore, "non-user" is referring to something else entirely with a "different configuration" (bots, super-users, algorithms).
As for super users, how on earth can one sign up to playing against them? How could the poker room explain that one in court?
The WSOP online poker software only offers low stakes cash games, so no one has enough money to hire lawyers or investigators.. Accordingly, the chance that WSOP ever ends up in court is almost zero... But if they somehow did, they would invariably point to section 6.13 of the Terms of Service to say that everyone signed up to play non-users with different configurations, aka bots, super-users and algorithms.. They would also point to section 7.1 to say that everyone was aware that their poker games had a "house edge", and this edge isn't allowed to be overcome by betting techniques (poker).
I am sure if you post this on WSOP's thread in "online poker sites" someone that is familiar with that site could be of more help.
When they refer to betting limits I would imagine they are referring to limits players can put on a total game not what is bet in a pot. In other words responsible gaming rules can differ.
"Though a majority of the games on WSOP.com take place on the All American Poker Network and include players from various states as well as partner site 888poker NJ, there are a few noteworthy exceptions". I pulled this from online and I would imagine it is relevant to the pooling of players and why things can differ but for further info and more informed info post the OP in the thread I mentioned and hopefully someone can sort it for you.
I am sure if you post this on WSOP's thread in "online poker sites" someone that is familiar with that site could be of more help.When they refer to betting limits I would imagine they are referring to limits players can put on a total game not what is bet in a pot. In other words responsible gaming rules can differ."Though a majority of the games on WSOP.com take place on the
None of what you said is articulated in the terms of service.
If what you said was valid, then they could've just said that.. They could've said "total game" like you did (I don't know what that means either tbh), but instead they used terms like "betting limits" and "people that aren't users of the service" (aka non-users)... And they said the house has an edge in the poker games.
So they said things that are quite different than what you're stating.
I was expecting to find vague language in the TOS and I did.. I even found a section that says the house has an edge in the poker games, which makes zero sense in poker.
All of this protects them in court because users sign on to this (i.e. non-users, house edge, etc) when they download the software and check the terms of service boxes along the way.
I'm reaching out to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, the Nevada Gaming Commission, and the AG this morning.
