Calling range vs maniacal whale?
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
V - Would like advice on your calling range vs this V preflop. I'll do my best to describe his tendencies:
-99% VPIP preflop
-VPIP/PFR/3-bet of about 100/40/10, calls everything for any size
-can bluff and barrel in his bluffs, even triple barrel a total airball with no equity
-post flop his check calling range is full of crappy draws and naked overcards and very occaisionally premium hands like top set (so its polar). His betting range is very luke warm, weak top pairs, second pair, etc.
-he will chase any draw. Q9o on T-8-3 he will check call or check raise depending on the player. So he mixes between passive and aggressive.
-he's the guy who gets to the river with some weird hand like J3o and you think that brick 3 mean your AA are good until he rolls over 2-pair.
-I call him a maniacal whale because he really only takes aggressive bet bet bet lines or passive calling lines, nothing in between, he doesn't suddenly change aggression part way through the hand, if he's betting flop he will continue betting turn and river, if he's check calling flop he will continue check calling.
-He calls at very high frequency when played back at so your raises are going to be called at high frequency.
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Hand 1 - V cold opens LJ to 25, H sees 4♦ 5♦ on BTN and is 500 effective, V covers. Hero?
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Hand 2 - one limp in EP to V who opens MP to 30, folds to H in BB who sees A♠ J♣ and is 500 effective, V covers. Hero?
18 Replies
(see the other thread about maniac raising to 50-100 blind at 1-2)
When V is playing any2 for large amounts I don't like to pile in money with 5 high.
Hand 2 you should probably 3bet big (maybe even just shove if he's auto calling 100%) and bet/call or shove most flops. If you call you have to not fold a lot when you "miss", but being OOP it still mostly sucks unless you have some great tells. If you aren't going to call a lot post it might be better to fold preflop until you see a better hand and 3bet.
how you play either of these hands pf is more dependent on your read on the other players in the hand.
do the blinds have the ability to squeeze light after you flat the button? in which case just fold.
is EP limping to the maniac to limp/raise? in which case just fold.
otherwise both spots are a pretty straightforward call against a V who blasts the flop turn and river when we have hands that will flop with a lot of clarity to where we're at in the hand.
to answer this ^ no, no one ever 3-bets this guy without JJ+, no one is squeezing
personally i want to get HU with this guy so that i can stack off any healthy pair and any 8out+draw, so i would 3bet him a lot IP. (If im OOP, see my post in your other thread).
AJo im looking to cut down the SPR so that i can play a 2 street game and gii on the turn. so u can just make it 75, half pot the flop, and jam turn whenever u make a pair of jacks or aces.
I would prefer big cards to implied odds hands with this strategy, since u really dont need to make a set or a straight or a flush to gii way ahead vs this profile. ex i would prefer AJo/ATo/KQo to a hand like 33/45s/A5s.
I fold H1, agree with hypernit on big crds being key here.
H2 feels like an easy shove (assuming we don't think limper is trapping), given "he calls everything for any size", and we are ahead of his 40% opening range.
Make things easy. Why force us to play oop vs a maniac with ace high when he’s gonna station us pre? Just shove the AJ. 54 just fold, he’s going to make chasing draws very difficult.
Result:
Spoiler
Hand 1 we call pre, flop A-7-5, we call 25, turn a 2, we call another 25, river A, V bets 50 and we fold.
Hand 2 we fold pre.
Result:
Spoiler
Hand 1 we call pre, flop A-7-5, we call 25, turn a 2, we call another 25, river A, V bets 50 and we fold.
Hand 2 we fold pre.
wtf? you played it backwards.
Hand 1 easy fold pre.
Hand 2 easy 3 bet for value.
Vs him, we probably 3 betting 88+/broadways/TJs+/ATo+ all for value. When we hit tp or better, we just stack off if possible. Playing draws aggressively vs him as well.
Marginal hands at most call 1 bet unless you're prepared to call 3 streets with marginal hands. We are only calling spike 2pairs+ hands, so cheaply if possible. Or if flop+turn was check thru, river becomes easier to bluff catch for 1 street only. Or flop you cbet in position, turn check, check, river he leads out, you just snap call with any pair and maybe even raise with your bluffs.
Our calling range maybe 22-77? vs big preflop raises, it's harder to have a calling range. OOP are hard to play as well.
Ignoring the fact Banana screwed it up, I have a question for folks 3 betting with AJo.
For those advocating a 3b but less than a shove with AJo, what is your rationale? Is it purely being scared the limper has a monster, so we get away if he jame behind us? Or would you still 3b less than shove without the limper?
Grunch: against a hyper-LAG, just fold 54s and AJo. We have no incentive to play big pots with marginal holdings against a guy who plays every hand and will barrel with air.
If you push things by playing marginal hands against this guy, you're playing bingo, just trying to smash the flop, while hoping your hand is good and holds up.
AJo vs. 100% is 64% ... that's +$140 per hand, if he calls all the time.
If he calls only 20% of the opens, we are still 54%. So +$34 when he folds and +$40 when he calls.
If he calls only 15% of the opens, we are now flipping but we pickup $34 for free 85% of the time (roughly +$29 per hand).
If he calls only 10% of the opens, we are now behind but the free money makes up for it:
9x 100% of $34 = +$306
1x 43% of $1k = -$70
...or roughly +$23 per hand.
If he calls only 5% of the opens:
19x 100% of $34 = +$646
1x 31% of $1k = -$190
...or roughly +$23 per hand.
AJo vs. 100% is 64% ... that's +$140 per hand, if he calls all the time.If he calls only 20% of the opens, we are still 54%. So +$34 when he folds and +$40 when he calls.If he calls only 15% of the opens, we are now flipping but we pickup $34 for free 85% of the time (roughly +$29 per hand).If he calls only 10% of the opens, we are now behind but the free money makes up for it:
He calls every bet for every size according to OP.
Given his raise range is 40%, he'll call with that, so we are well ahead, assuming limper is not trapping.
Ugh, somehow missed that it's 60% limp 40% open. That does make a difference.
Redoing the math:
AJo vs. 40% is 60% ... that's +$100 per hand, if he calls all the time.
If he calls a 20% range, we are still 54%. So +$34 when he folds and +$40 when he calls.
If he calls a 15% range, we are now flipping but we pickup $34 for free 62% of the time (roughly +$21 per hand).
If he calls a 10% range, we are now behind but the free money makes up for it:
3x 100% of $34 = +$102
1x 43% of $1k = -$70
...or roughly +$8 per hand.
If he calls a 5% range, we start losing (over the long term):
5x 100% of $34 = +$170
1x 31% of $1k = -$190
...or roughly -$3 per hand.
tl;dr Technically we can be in trouble if he starts folding correctly now, and it'll be high variance if he can find the fold button 75% of the time. With a quick look AQo and AJs are both still fine to shove though.
Just a heads up, 100/40/10 doesn’t mean Villain limps a 60% range and raises a 40% range. It means that he plays 100% of hands and raises 40% of all of the chances he gets pre-flop. A lot of the time, it will be open-raised in front of Villain. Given that Villain plays 100% of the time and only 3bets 10%, that means he is cold-calling extremely often. When he cold calls, his PFR % goes down. Because we know Villain cold calls often (bringing his PFR down) that means he has to be RFI-ing a range that is significantly wider than 40%.
OP doesn’t state how often Villain limps and overlimps. IMO it’s safe to assume he is iso-raising wider than 40% over a single limp though.
As for the hand, I would 3bet AJo to a large size and be all-in post-flop a lot. 45s is an easy fold but I’m not happy about it.
Just a heads up, 100/40/10 doesn’t mean Villain limps a 60% range and raises a 40% range. It means that he plays 100% of hands and raises 40% of all of the chances he gets pre-flop. A lot of the time, it will be open-raised in front of Villain. Given that Villain plays 100% of the time and only 3bets 10%, that means he is cold-calling extremely often. When he cold calls,
Why not jam pre given OP said he called everything?
Redoing the math:
[...]
If he calls a 5% range, we start losing (over the long term):
5x 100% of $34 = +$170
1x 31% of $1k = -$190
...or roughly -$3 per hand.
Math is hard.
If he calls a 5% range, we are still +EV:
7x 100% of $34 = +$238
1x 31% of $1k = -$190
...or roughly +$6 per hand.
Also what Dan said: 40% PFR is wider than a 40% range when you cold call significantly.
Yeah, good question. It feels wrong to jam $500 over a single $30 raise, but I don't doubt that it is a winning play here. I guess functionally there isn't that much of a difference between jamming $500 and 3betting to $120 - $150 and being committed to stacking off in most situations
