Monster draw facing a overbet shove, should I have played it differently?
Deep stacked 2/5 cash game
Villain(UTG): ~$2600
Hero (BTN) covers
Villain limped UTG, MP2 , CO and Hero (5s6s) limped along on the button. SB opened to $30, Villain limp raised to $150. MP called, Hero and SB called. 4 ways to the flop. Pot: $610
Flop 4s 7s 10c. Hero flopped a open ended sf draw. Villain led out $500. MP folded, Hero called after some contemplation. SB folded. Heads up to the turn. Pot: $1610
Turn 9d. Villain just open shoved ~$1950. Hero ??
Definitely not getting the right odds to call at the end, but I wonder if the correct play was to raise the flop and try to get stacks in. Villain's range just seems so strong limp raising and betting so big on the flop, and in position I have decided to peel and see if I could have hit the monster draw. If I was out of position, then I will probably try to check raise instead. How should I have approached this hand differently?
8 Replies
Fold preflop, no need to coldcall the 3bet.
Flop ship it in. Might or might not have fold equity, it doesn't matter, we have the crazy combo draw, we are only behind other flushdraws.
If he had an overpair, we have 15 outs, which we beat on the flop. If he had folded, we win all the dead money out there. If he calls, it's not the end of the day.
This is the dream flop for you after coldcalling the 3bet. You had one of the worst hands to call now ship it and pray to poker gods he either folds or call but you hit and win. WIN/WIN either way.
Did you just limp $5 then proceed to call $150 over a raise and limp/reraise? That’s terrible.
Flop it’s obvious he has QQ+ betting like this so it’s pretty much a flip. Feels like you’re obligated to shove although you’re not loving it. Just calling is lighting money on fire because if you whiff turn, he will jam 100% of the time and force you to fold your equity.
Limping and calling 150 would be great with a small pp 4-way against probably AA/KK, but is terrible with this hand.
Think you have to shove the flop. You are 56% AA and there is dead money. You are much worse against a higher flush draw, but limp/3-bettor should have QQ+ almost always.
You're a favorite against even black Aces on the flop, so you should raise for value.
The turn is close to a pot odds call but you're correct that you aren't getting the right price. Folding here is a disaster though, which is another reason to raise the flop.
Pre-flop in this hand is really bad. You can raise Button the first time around and you absolutely have to fold to the limp 3bet. You are getting a bad price and you aren't closing the action. The SB can 4bet here and then you will have torched $150 without seeing a flop. Your hand also doesn't play that well multi-way in a low SPR spot.
Grunch:
PRE - either raise or fold when action is on us the first time. Definitely fold the second time.
FLOP - seems like raise, fold, and call would all be viable options if we were heads up. But with the SB still in the hand, I think we might lean more towards fold rather than flat call or raise.
The problem with situations like this is that we're only going to be able to continue when we hit our hand on the turn, which is only going to happen about 30% of the time, and we might not get paid when we do hit.
If we don't get paid when we hit, then we're not getting the correct odds to call flop. If either opponent has a better draw, we have reverse implied odds.
So, fold pre. Also fold flop.
You're a favorite against even black Aces on the flop, so you should raise for value...
...You are getting a bad price and you aren't closing the action. The SB can 4bet here and then you will have torched $150 without seeing a flop...
The second part is huge. The SB is 4! with a lot of the range they're popping it with. If you closed the action, meh but I get it this deep and IP. But you don't, and are really fortunate here that you only had to call 150.
On the flop...JFC, what else do you want?! You're even 40% vs TT. A 5% favorite vs black Aces. 56/44 vs Red Aces. Only ATss has you hating life at 68/32 and they're not l/rr with it.
Stick it in over V's hilariously bad OP entitlement tilt. That way, you get to fully realize your equity as a favorite.
I agree with everyone saying you need to jam flop. What was the point of all that bullshit pre if you aren't going to jam the third best flop you could ever hope for behind full houses?
I would fold or raise pre, leaning to fold because you aren't folding everyone out and if anyone calls your $40+ raise you aren't very happy about it. I guess limping isn't the absolute worst thing if you just feel like playing bingo but there are so few good flops.
But you've got to fold after the action behind. It is just torching money, for all the reasons others have already pointed out.
