India Pakistan

India Pakistan

I am on phone, so this isn’t going to be the OP it should be. But seems like things popping off and the rest of t

24 April 2025 at 08:43 PM
Reply...

87 Replies


Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

by 57 On Red
by DesertCat

US kit is the best kit, demonstrated by 40 year old Bradley versions smashing best Russian tanks in Ukraine. But it's not clear the extra performance of the latest versions is worth the immense costs, as demonstrated by 40 year-old Bradleys, Abrams, javelins, Patriots, etc. smashing the best Russian kit in Ukraine.

162 of a reported 300 Bradleys in Ukraine have been lost at the

In two years of heavy fighting and this likely means close to 160 surviving Bradley crews vs. a fraction of that if they had been using BTRs/BMPs. The Ukrainians use the Bradley extremely aggressively, and in a trench warfare battlefield that means heavy equipment losses, but reduces your casualties inserting combatants very close to the action.

Russian strategy always involves making huge amounts of cheap equipment and accept the higher losses compromises in crew protection and battle awareness of their vehicles lead to, as they can always throw more bodies at the enemy. The US strategy treats experienced well trained crews as more valuable than equipment, because they'll be far more effective than fresh bodies, so we spend way more on crew protection/awareness. Ukraine is outnumbered 4-1, so reducing losses in their best crews by having more survivable battle taxis is important.

by 57 On Red

They are claimed to have disabled two Russian T-72 tanks and one T-90.

There is no full count or claim of how many Russian tanks have been taken out by Bradley. For example, in May 2024 there is video of one taking out a T-80, thats not on your list. US Supreme commander for Europe estimated in April that Russia had lost 3, 000 tanks and 9, 000 armored vehicles within just the last 12 months, I assure you the Bradleys account for a lot more than 3 of them.

Bradleys have historically been extremely effective against Russian built/designed tanks in both Iraqi wars having huge kill ratios and allegedly knocked out more tanks than the Abrams did. Here is a story from the battle of 73 Easting.

"After defeating that force, McMaster sent a scout platoon of two M3 Bradleys north to regain contact with G Troop. In doing that the scout platoon encountered another Iraqi tank position of thirteen T-72s. The lightly armored Bradleys, each equipped only with a 25-mm cannon and two TOW missiles, are intended for reconnaissance, not direct engagement with armored tanks. Despite a misfire, and having to reload the launchers in the face of the enemy, the two Bradleys destroyed 5 tanks before help arrived"

by 57 On Red

17 of 31 Abrams have been lost at the last count and Biden's outgoing National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan concluded in December that they were 'not useful to Ukraine'. Their maintenance characteristics and serviceability are poor and their topside armour does not appear to stop Russian drone munitions.

Again, likely almost all 17 of their crews survived, unlike a Russian tank. And all tanks are vulnerable to top down munitions, whether from drones or javelins or anything else.

Abrams is really robust, its powerful turbine engine can greatly exceed its maintenance intervals if necessary, but its maintenance requires a large supporting staff and parts inventory. Bradleys are clearly better for Ukraine unless we are going to offer much more help in maintenance and support.


by grizy

SU-57 has been in prototype stage since 2007, when its first test flights were planned (and delayed till 2010).

I agree the program is dead, without China or India committing to buy significant numbers Russia doesn't have the resources to build it on its own.


by grizy

PS: no way the Bradley has taken down only 2 T-72s

The "Pentagon Wars" story is mythology. Colonel Burton was butthurt over the pentagon ignoring his own "brilliant ideas", and made ridiculous claims about the Bradley and its testing program, such as demanding the Army run "overmatch" tests using munitions the Bradley wasn't designed to withstand while the Army refused because they were pointless.

Some consider him a pathological liar.

Burton is closely linked to the "Fighter Mafia Mavericks" who fought the Air Force over their F-15 and F-16 designs until finally pivoting to taking credit for them. This was only after the Air Force refused to implement their ideas for lightweight fighter planes without missiles or radar that flying in modern war theaters would been as suicidal as flying Mitsubishi Zeros in 1945 against Hellcats, Thunderbolts and Mustangs.

Colonel Burton had his own specific lightweight fighter plan, the VB-200 Blitzfighter, rejected by the Pentagon. It would have been super cheap, and ultra suicidal, a tiny fragile plane built around the A-10 gun without any ability to field the A-10's massive upgrades in sensors that finally reduced the a-10s high rate of fratricide. I'm surprised the Russians didn't steal the plans and implement their own, since throwing masses of cheap fighters with terrible survival rates at their enemies fits their standard strategic protocol to a T.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/blitzfighter-bushwacker-atlas-lightweight-attack-studies.9179/


by 57 On Red
by grizy

PS: no way the Bradley has taken down only 2 T-72s

Ukraine has made only three claims for Russian tanks destroyed or disabled by Bradleys. The vehicle is an armoured personnel carrier. It is not designed to engage big-gun main battle tanks on equal terms. For defence it has anti-tank missile launchers, and a cannon which can disrupt a tank's suspension and running gear (or turre

Your entire argument revolves absense of evidence, that because we don't have a full accounting of Bradley tank kills in Ukraine we must assume its only 3 (or 4 if you include the T-80 I found in 5 seconds of googling). Yet we also know that Bradleys have a kill ratio well in excess of 10-1 when head to head with Russian tanks during the Iraqi wars, allegedly with a kill count over a thousand.

It's been demonstrated that at long ranges the TOWs are extremely effective at destroying Russian tanks, close up its chain gun is very effective at blinding Russian tanks because their sensors are poorly protected, easily allowing the Bradley to maneuver and destroy them. Bradley gives its crew and commander far better situational awareness and better maneuvering ability. Given how poorly trained Russian tank crews are usually thats a huge advantage.

Again, at 97 Easting two Bradleys took on THIRTEEN T-72s and destroyed 5 of them without taking a loss and Bradleys destroyed more Russian tanks than Abrams did during that war. They are very effective tank killers.


by DesertCat

The "Pentagon Wars" story is mythology. Colonel Burton was butthurt over the pentagon ignoring his own "brilliant ideas", and made ridiculous claims about the Bradley and its testing program, such as demanding the Army run "overmatch" tests using munitions the Bradley wasn't designed to withstand while the Army refused because they were pointless.

Aware of all this and hence the tongue in cheek PS


Bradleys are superior and Russians just win by using meat shields. we have heard this story all before. doesnt matter bc Russia keeps taking territory and the USA keeps begging for a ceasefire. so despite the American superiority in every facet, the Russians keep winning. weird how that works.


by grizy

Aware of all this and hence the tongue in cheek PS

Western militaries are just no match for superior Russian anti-woke forces.


Just to be clear, the Bradley is highly effective against much more heavily armoured Russian tanks but that has a lot more to do with how “tank” warfare has evolved.

Also just to be clear on Burton, man may have been an idiot on some fronts but a lot of his findings and tests became standards. He’s arguably the single biggest reason modern Abrams got so many design elements to make it much more likely for the crew to survive even if the tank is disabled.


by Victor

Bradleys are superior and Russians just win by using meat shields. we have heard this story all before. doesnt matter bc Russia keeps taking territory and the USA keeps begging for a ceasefire. so despite the American superiority in every facet, the Russians keep winning. weird how that works.

The USA hasn’t begged for a ceasefire, Trump just bitch slapped Putin for launching attacks while he was trying to broker a peace agreement. Truth is Trump doesn’t want to keep paying to protect Ukraine, and he’s weirdly sympathetic to that creep Putin, not realizing how weak Russia is.

And how is your strategic bomber force doing today Vatnik?


by DesertCat

Trump just bitch slapped Putin...

That is not a thing that happened, or is ever going to happen, any more than Geli Raubal ever bitch-slapped Hitler.


by 57 On Red
by DesertCat

Trump just bitch slapped Putin...

That is not a thing that happened, or is ever going to happen, any more than Geli Raubal ever bitch-slapped Hitler.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g2wz74jdzo


Wow, he called Putin crazy so they called him an overemotional lib. What a bitch slap


Trump is throwing a tantrum for being embarassed by Putin.

He did absolutely nothing of consequence to Putin.

Reply...