A678

Both options are good , if you feel like players might contniue spazzing , just call the bet and navigate turns.
If you feel like they will most likley shut down with less then top two , riase here to exctract value from bigger aces and small wraps.

Call/ see a turn.

Both blinds being short stacked is a factor here. If you call short stacks will tend to check-raise big draws, sets (most likely the smallest set with your blockers) and possibly two pair (which you either tie or beat). The blinds are short but deep enough that it would reopen the action and you would learn a lot about UTG's and HJ's actual hand if he/they just call (I would then jam). If one of the deep stack jams I would consider folding. If the blinds just call or fold you have a lot of good cards on the turn that either give you a nut flush draw, flush draw, straight draw (sometimes in combo with a flush draw) in addition to the two pair you already have. The only bad turn cards are cards higher than your six that doesn't bring in one of your flush or straight draws and even then your opponents might check to you in which case you would evaluate (but probably lean toward betting)).

That said you have a vulnerable top two pair so a raise needs to be considered. If raising I would consider raising a moderate size where if a short stack jams the action is reopened putting a lot of pressure on the UTG and HJ. This is one of the reasons it's often more important to know the exact size of the short stacks where an approximation of the deep stacks is usually good enough.

Once again would love to hear from the better posters on all this.

Yeh I would raise a moderate size - if we call we just end up making too many mistakes turn/river esp going 3 way.

I stopped reading after seeing we didn’t 3b this hand on the button with dead money in the pot too.

We can comfortably call 4b as well.

With both BDFD we can just raise and get the money in on turns that bring us anything in

Not 3b this hand pre is a travesty tho. Makes me physically ill reading it.

OTOH the best way to realise your 2xbdfd+bdsd is to call and play position.

OTOH we're likely ahead right now with more bad turns for us than good ones, and we're only facing a small bet.

I might genuinely be flipping a coin.

When choosing when to 3b a good 3b candidate we should consider more things than just our hand, specifically who we want in the pot.

You need to overcome a -36bb/100 mistake by flatting here and I can tell you’re not just by being confused on what to do here postflop with top2 and 2 BDFDs

Yeah on balance I think 3b pre is good particularly given HJ is described as loose and we're deep with the two people who have vpiped

random thought...

Pre: UTG limps, HJ pots 25, Hero [CALLS?!]

I see this a lot both online and live where someone open limps, someone else isolation raises them and then Hero makes the mistake and cold calls with a good hand instead of raising. I'll give my reasonable advice on how to play here preflop as the either the HJ or the hero against an open limp. If you were the HJ (or any position) and someone open limps in front of you, then isolation raise with a range equal to the open limper's position. Therefore, since it was the UTG that open limped, then the HJ should isolation raise with a UTG opening range. A lot of people open limp online, as well as, live, therefore know a good range to use as an isolation raise. So now let's look at the if you are Hero. If you are Hero, look at what I just said HJ should have as a range, therefore as Hero you should 3bet with a range that is a 3bet against an UTG range because that is the range HJ should be using. I know that might sound confusing but read it over until it makes since. The open limper's position is what is used as the range to isolation raise and to 3b against.

Now having written what I just wrote, I occasionally do mix things a bit and here is how. A876 double suited can be multiple different ways. The Ace can be suited to the 8. Ace can be suited to the 7. Ace can be suited to the 6. Right? So of those three way having this hand, I might "occasionally", and you all so me write the damn word "occasionally", play two out of the three ways as a 3bet and one out of the three ways as a cold call with these A + middle rundowns double suited. And when you make an ace high flush, you want to get call by a lower flush, right? So the one of the three that has the high card to go with my Ace is the one I might ocassionaly call in stead of 3bet. If you have A8 suited here, then that means you can't have an opponent have an 8 high flush to your Ace high flush because you have the 8. But don't anyone get pedantic about this post and lose their crap over what I wrote.

If someone has a solver quickly available, I'm curious to see a live and a 6-max solution if we are on the BUTTON with A876 double suited is it a 3bet or cold call all three ways against an UTG open range heads up (remember my previous post about isolation raising and 3bet betting).

Is [A8][76] a 3bet or cold call on BU versus a UTG open raise?
Is [A7][86] a 3bet or cold call on BU versus a UTG open raise?
Is [A6][87] a 3bet or cold call on BU versus a UTG open raise?

Well someone lost their crap.

I'm on vacation, can someone do me a favor a check PLO trainer or Vision or whatever and answer my above question, let's start simple in most people's wheelhouse and go 6-max 100bb Utg open raises and hero is button in a heads up pot, answer please error BB is fine to include.

Oh yeah and screen shots would be nice too.

Disagree especially in this situation where it is most likely to go multiway. Do we have nut capability? Check. Do we have position on everyone? Check. Are effective stacks deep where UTG and HJ will make major mistakes? Check.

Thanks, but why are the above screen shots for GG Poker preflop rake structure? Kindly repost in another rake structure.

Anyone?

Seems like a close spot? For what it’s worth I did raise. No need to be a prick about it, we’re here to discuss.

+1,000,000

I'm still waiting on screen shots.

I mostly agree with this from a theoretical standpoint, though in practice (given this situation), I'm okay with just calling pre though since it's a hand that likes to see the flop. It's not like we're playing against a 5/10 lineup online with very sharp players. These are tourists who don't play well, you can just call and wait to make a hand, then put a bunch of money in the pot.

But, no use in getting physically ill over other people's decisions, right? lol

I get what you're saying but math isn't everything. I suppose you could lump me in the fish pile for sometimes calling here, but you'd then be playing suboptimally against me by thinking I don't know what I'm doing when in reality, I'm just playing based on different heuristics than you are.

Just because a hand is shown to have more value 3betting in a vacuum, doesn't mean given certain table dynamics, that to instead call with it, is necessarily a "fish play". I've coached a lot of players that had this mindset of thinking too often their opponents are bad because of one decision when in reality, you can't truly tell if they are good or bad until you have a legitimate sample. It also closes your mind off to consider plays you could gain additional EV if you thought about it more, but your default idea will just be, "this hand = auto 3bet no matter what the situation", you'll be playing on autopilot more often.

I'd put in a raise as played, I think our hand wants protection 6ways, especially with 2 players who can call cheap. Hoping one of the 300-400 stacks can get it in light.

Does whether or not to 3! depend a lot on the quality of the players in the blinds? Which I assume aren't pros given the stack sizes...

Agreed that with no info we want to 3! A876ds a lot, but in this instance we're also likely to push out the three weakest players and end up heads with with the person who "seems to know what he’s doing." Still a profitable line, but I don't "feel sick" about it.

As played, with the 2bdfd, I'm flatting, and then prepared to come over the top if one of the blinds raises and UTG / HJ call.

Does this not create a problem in that we're going to have to telegraph our intentions (by making a rather small raise) because if we pot then there isn't space to reopen the action if a 300-400 stack shoves?