A678

Not really, no. Their stacks are between ~20 and 35% of the guys who have already vpiped. This 3b will still be profitable even if both the blinds are shortstack ninjas. There's no strategy they can employ against this 3b that dents its profitability. Poker is a game of partial information - the information we've received so far is that two guys with deep stacks like their hands enough to vpip, so we focus our strategy on them.

As to whether this hand gains more of an equity edge in a 3-way vs 5-way pot, IDK, that's an interesting question, but we do prefer a bigger 3-way pot for sure.

The problem flatting here is the hand doesn’t flop strong enough to get it in a flop at a deep SPR majority of the time.

Had the SPR been lower on flop we can comfortably raise jam this flop with top 2 and 2 BDFD

With a super high SPR we require way more equity and now have to navigate turns that will prove difficult such as any card higher than a 6 that doesn’t bring in our FD. Let’s say the turn is an off suit Q. Are we just folding to a pot size turn bet in that situation?

I’d rather flat with hands that have clear decisions and likely to be nuts by the river as opposed to these mid run down hands that have to fold a ton of their equity when facing aggression on a lot of flops.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, these mid rundown hands are the most misplayed hands in live poker and it’s due to people not understanding where the EV comes from.

I don't know if you calling this hand having a "super" high SPR was you being disingenuous, poor choice or words or you don't know jack crap about SPR. But given how you have tried to talk in absolutes in this thread, I thought I might as well point out you are absolutely wrong in calling this pot a super high SPR. Try not to get any further butthurt or bent out of shape in this thread. Three different posters have all comment on you losing you **** or getting "sick" and a fourth even called you a prick. This thread hasn't been your finest hour. But back to calling this hand "super" high SPR when it wasn't (maybe that was to try and further your agenda).

SPR of 1 is a one pot sized bet left and could be called a "small" or "low" SPR. That is easy for one person to get in all by themselves over three streets or even easier with a raise postflop.

SPR of 4 is a two pot sized bet left and could be called a "medium" SPR. That is easy for one person to get in all by themselves over three streets or even easier with a raise postflop.

SPR of 13 is a three pot sized bet left and could be called a "high" SPR. One person could get in all by themselves over three streets or even easier with a raise postflop.

Anything below an SPR 1 would be considered "super" low. Anything over SPR 13 would qualify as "super" high. This hand had 5 players put in $25 each to create a flop pot of $125 and the highest effective stack started the hand at $1,500. Therefore, $1,475 divided by $125 equals a flop SPR of about 12. Last time I check, 12 was less than 13 therefore this doesn't even max out the definition of "high SPR" and damn sure doesn't qualify as "super" high SPR.

Maybe this thread has you too butthurt to participate with your brain instead of your sick feelings. However, if you are going to try and run around here talking about absolutes on what is or isn't a 3 bet, then also take the ****ing time to get it right on what is or isn't a "super" high SPR.

TIL 12 isn’t a super high SPR

Maybe tomorrow you will learn how to not be a person that four people in a thread of only 30 posts is calling an emotional clown or prick.

Not really. Hero can still consider raise/fold lines, but not being able to reopen the action isn't a problem. The immediate goal is to charge weak hands away Hero is ahead of now from seeing the turn too cheaply. Hero is also going to be able to stuff the rest of the money in on plenty of turns comfortably.

Sorry, I searched for awhile, what does bdfd stand for?

DOH!

Looks like hero also has 3bdsd, all of which make the nuts?

You got it, BDSD stands for back door straight draw. Some of them are going to not be to the nuts though as all kinds of crazy combinations can come out.

And since you brough up nuts, sometimes you might see the syntax or short hand someone uses as 'NBDFD" or "BDNFD" or whatever short hand they want to use.

For example the OP could have wriiten, Backdoor Nut Flush Draw + Backdoor Flush Draw

Board: A63 rainbow

Here is a push in the right direction on a rainbow board with how it can be backdoor flushed for a player...

2 Backdoor Nut Flush Draws

1 Backdoor Nut Flush Draw + 1 Backdoor Flush Draw

2 Backdoor Flush Draws

1 Backdoor Nut Flush Draw

1 Backdoor Nut Flush Draw (but you have some flush outs in you hand by having 3 or 4 of the same suit in you hand)

1 Backdoor Flush Draw

1 Backdoor Flush Draw (but you have some flush outs in you hand by having 3 or 4 of the same suit in you hand)

Holy fk the people here are mental. Let's drive away the only guys who actually know something about poker. Good job.

"emotional clown or prick" wtf am I reading even

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Not sure I am reading this right, but if I am, I could close my eyes and randomly pick a thread here and see you arguing with someone, so your hypocritical take on this is pure you.

And what exactly is that hypocrisy? I never said there shouldn't be any debate.

ITT four people got a bit emotional when a stronger player laid some facts and in your world that now proves something of significance. I won't bother answering to your nonsense anymore and probably nobody should.

LMAO hypocrisy in spades. Thanks for stopping by with more of your "debate" style posting that no one takes seriously. You added nothing of worth to yet another thread.

Only one person lost the crap in this thread. Multiple people tried to have an intervention for the emotional clown, but he doubled down and then tripled down on the crazy.

Being better at poker than someone else is not an excuse to be as condescending as echemondo is and as good as his analysis is, it's not good enough for us of us to ignore that. He's not really capturing big picture stuff, and has a shiny hammer and thinks everything is a nail. It's not our jobs as lowly serfs of the plo forum to keep this wonderful font of knowledge happy while he abuses people for being worse at poker than him.

There's debate and there's debate. People don't like the way echemondo talks to them. Include me in that.

The physically ill comment was a joke obviously.

The comment about not knowing what to do so you can’t overcome a -36bb/100 deviation was less so.

Apologies anyone who took offense but the point remains.

Do not make massive deviations from GTO if you do not understand how to play GTO to begin with or where EV comes from.

You can sit here and say I want to bring to weaker players in but then you don’t know how to exploit the weaker players. Let’s use this hand as an example.

Flatting is a -36bb/100 mistake as opposed to 3b. That means, someone has to be losing MORE than -36bb/100 in the blinds for this to be a winning play. Not only that, but you as the flatter have to be capturing ALL that EV they are spewing by yourself, and NOT SPLITTING it between the other winning players on the table.

So theoretically, the players in the blinds need to be losing more than -50bb/100 if there is one other winning player at the table, and even more if there are 3.

Now let’s assume you are the only winning player on the table. Ok so we have someone losing -50bb/100. Now we have to capture that by playing optimally postflop. Do we know how to play optimally postflop? Well if we are asking what to do on this board with top 2 and 2BDFD then the answer is prolly no as this is in theory a very simple spot to play with almost no difficulty if you are a sound postflop player.

So, if we don’t know how to play optimally postflop in our deviation in the easy nodes, not only are we leaking a ton of EV back to the player pool, but we are turning our -36bb/100 play into an even bigger mistake. So now we have a -50bb/100 mistake by flatting and now we have to capture even more EV somehow to make the play profitable. We need EVEN BIGGER LOSERS in the blinds.

On top of that, how much EV are we leaking back into the pool on the real difficult to navigate spots like bottom 2 with 1 BDFD?

The point is, don’t deviate to make an exploit when you don’t know how to exploit.

Flatting here is a huge deviation. This isn’t a fringe hand that wins a marginal 1bb/100 more by 3betting. Those are the hands we don’t care in human land whether we flat or call. Flatting with this hand is such a massive mistake it crushes our win rate and we need to be optimally sound postflop to overcome it.