coo-coo hand with JTs
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Table has just opened as the last game and we put ourselves on the transfer list thinking it was going to suck but it's actually pretty good. Lots of unknowns that seem willing to gamble. The table talk is dreadful "I folded a three-ace on that hand!" when some guy folded pre and the flop comes 7-3-3 in a 3-bet pot.
V1 - unknown pudgy asian. In about 45 minutes he's been VERY passive. One hand he straddled BTN, I opened AJo to 30 in MP, he called IP, board went A-T-blank-blank-blank and I check called down and he also had AJo, he bet flop and turn and checked back river. He used modest sizings. Seems to bet his top pair or better and check call everything else. 320$ SB.
V2 - unknown white kid. Very gambly. 75% VPIP. Has been raising and clicking it back at me for awhile. Had one ridiculous hand with him that he won and now he covers the table. Covers. BTN.
HH w/ V2 - V straddles UTG, limps 10 ways for 6$, we see Q♥ T♥ and just call 6$ from BB, V to 70, everyone folds and we decide to call closing the action HU (probably bad in a vacuum but there's about 35$ in dead money), Flop ~175$ J♦ 9♥ 6♦ x V bets 70 we call, turn 3♦, we donk shove for pot, V tank calls with 88 no ♦ and river bricks.
---- H has 350$ in HJ ----
One limp in EP to us, we see J♥ T♥ and open to 15 from HJ, V2 OTB to 50, V1 in SB calls 50, we call. 3-ways 2nd to act.
Flop 150 - 9♦ 8♣ 4♥
V1 checks, H checks, V2 bets 75, V1 calls, we call.
Turn 375 - 4♣
V1 checks, H checks, V2 bets 200, V1 calls AI for 195, H has 225 back....
16 Replies
Looks like a fold. Some outs are probly dirty. Not really getting the price.
With active Button I might even consider a nitty initial preflop fold here. Otherwise I would prefer to be able to see a flop for a reasonable price so I'd limp in. Calling for this percentage of non-large stacks with J high OOP sucks, imo.
SPR is lol 2 (which mostly suggests we didn't do something great preflop when we have J high, imo). Even though it is unlikely we have much FE against these jokers, just adding a smidgeon of FE to our decent hand equity of 2 overs + OESD should make us a decent fave on the flop. With active Button I probably check/shove, although it is possible they may consider themselves committed at this SPR if they put in any flop money, so I wouldn't hate an open jam either. Are we just check/calling cuz we're convinced our FE is 0?
As played, it seems a little unlikely given action that our overs are good, which leaves us with 8 outs (which might not all be clean). If we give ourselves 8 clean OESD outs plus averaging one over being good, we're about break-evenish. Meh spot.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Dude, what are you doing?
Stop trying to out-aggro the aggro kid. Just let him drive both of you to value town when you actually have a hand. Why do the pulling when the donkey will do the pushing?
We could fold pre. Probably should. We could fold flop. Probably should. We absolutely positively should fold turn.
Flop is the easiest shove ever???
You should have 8 live outs or more
which means 32% to break even.
Even if 1 call, it nearly break even. If both call or if both fold we make money.
I'm on board with check/jam on the flop. As played, it's a sad fold on the turn.
HH w/ V2 - V straddles UTG, limps 10 ways for 6$, we see Q♥ T♥ and just call 6$ from BB, V to 70, everyone folds and we decide to call closing the action HU (probably bad in a vacuum but there's about 35$ in dead money), Flop ~175$ J♦ 9♥ 6♦ x V bets 70 we call, turn 3♦, we donk shove for pot, V tank calls with 88 no ♦ and river bricks.
Much like the hand you asked about, I think pre. is a problem with how big it is and that makes our options limited later.
Both are pretty hands, but being OOP and having a low SPR postflop make the prettiness worth much less.
I don't mind his call too, what are you supposed to have here?
You can't have an overpair, so are you playing AJs like this sometimes?
66, for sure but there's so much in preflop that even if you hit a set it's fine long term.
Yeh, the fact his hand is 88 instead of QQ is "bad" ... but only if you are donk shoving Jx/9x
Any commentary on the HH?
don't bluff V2
The obvious fold to the 3-bet preflop should be obvious, especially when you're OOP and barely more than 100BB deep.
HH w/ V2 - V straddles UTG, limps 10 ways for 6$, we see Q♥ T♥ and just call 6$ from BB, V to 70, everyone folds and we decide to call closing the action HU (probably bad in a vacuum but there's about 35$ in dead money), Flop ~175$ J♦ 9♥ 6♦ x V bets 70 we call, turn 3♦, we donk shove for pot, V tank calls with 88 no ♦ and river bricks.
"Yeah, it was luck".
---- H has 350$ in HJ ----
One limp in EP to us, we see J♥ T♥ and open to 15 from HJ, V2 OTB to 50, V1 in SB calls 50, we call. 3-ways 2nd to act.
Flop 150 - 9♦ 8♣ 4♥
V1 checks, H checks, V2 bets 75, V1 calls, we call.
Turn 375 - 4♣
V1 checks, H checks, V2 bets 200, V1 calls AI for 195, H has 225 back....
fold pre.
as played, shove flop.
as played, fold turn.
I don't mind preflop. Against a guy with 75% VPIP who has H card marked you can't let yourself be walked all over. Sure stack sizes are awkward but you're getting more than 3/1 to play against two bad players. You'd rather more stack depth and you may be in a tight squeeze if you hit a pair but you'll just have to run with it and accept some variance. Folding would be fine too.
Once SB calls the flop this seems like a very, very clear shove and this seems to be the main inflection point (/error) in the hand. That's printing pretty much whatever anyone has.
As played things are now a bit of a mess, yeah turn is probably a fold. You're going to see their cards anyhow as SB is all in, so there no intel benefit to calling.
I don't mind preflop. Against a guy with 75% VPIP who has H card marked you can't let yourself be walked all over.
It's not a dick-waving contest. It's OK to be "walked all over" (LOL) while holding a hand near the bottom of our raising range...especially OOP and only 100BB deep.
FWIW, continuing with a crappy hand because of the presence of two bad players only means the hand now has the presence of three bad players.
i mean fold qtss pre probably (i doubt u want to have any l/cs here given sizing except traps) or i guess jam if you're feeling lucky. ap jam the flop.
this hand id either jam pre or xjam the flop. turn seems whatever to me
75 vpip is literally playing every single unopened hand to him. regardless i dont really see the point of calling 3bs oop with easily dominated hands and trying to hit if hes really that lag, would either tighten up pre or play signifncantly more aggressively
Result:
Spoiler
I call turn. River is a J♣, V1 in SB has 4♠ 2♠, V2 mucks instantly showing A2o (not sure of suits) and I win the tiny sidepot.
