GGPoker RNG Certificate is from 2021
It has been brought to my attention that GGPoker's RNG Certificate from BMM testlabs is from 2021. Does anyone have any
I'd put it like this: GG is the only place where even winning pros have doubts about rng being legit.
Where are your sources? Or anybodys for that matter
When GG increased their rake their was a massive hs boycott and every hs player followed along as their quite a cohesive community
So if a decent chuck of them, or the majority as some put it, think they are being screwed over by a rigged RNG surely they would voice their concern
Where are your sources? Or anybodys for that matter
When GG increased their rake their was a massive hs boycott and every hs player followed along as their quite a cohesive community
So if a decent chuck of them, or the majority as some put it, think they are being screwed over by a rigged RNG surely they would voice their concern
Big difference between the rng being rigged and the rigged rng screwing over those that give GG a great deal of money. Do you think they would complain if they thought the rigging was to their benefit?
There can be a bit of stigma related to this but if you talk to hs pros privately, most of them will tell you that GG’s rng doesn’t seem as random as other sites.
Why would GG do it? To keep the games running longer. You can still make some regulars run way above EV and make it look like the professionals have a realistic chance to make money but more importantly you make most of the regs run really bad but just good enough that they continue depositing and keep losing despite their EV being massively in the green.
And most importantly, you rig the rng that way that the random whales run hot and keep the games running.
Tbh CoinPoker feels eerily similar - the amount of regs that run insane bad and disappear only to be replaced with new people who are clearly competent and then run hot, only to bust and rinse repeat. Also random lunatics come and win a bunch and leave. I’m not talking about the nosebleed heads up crushers (gucci or o4r), more midstakes 500-5k. I know that sounds nuts but I’ve witnessed it for a few years and I haven’t got a clue who’s winning on CP because people just disappear and the regs that seem to stand the test of time are few and far between and I never see anyone really crushing it bar a couple of exceptions (plo/plo5 mainly so I know variance is ridic). I’d be very interested to see winrates there, maybe I’m deluded and withered which could also be the case. It does feel like nobody is really winning but keep depositing because they are long term winners elsewhere and then when games run they try their luck again only to get fked over and over.
Big difference between the rng being rigged and the rigged rng screwing over those that give GG a great deal of money. Do you think they would complain if they thought the rigging was to their benefit?
How would the RNG be rigged to benefit all HS players? They play each other so how would this happen in practice? If hs players are silent because the RNG runs in their favor surely the hs regs that get the raw end of the deal would be even more vocal? If the RNG is benefiting some than it must be the case that it is also screwing people over.
It does feel like nobody is really winning but keep depositing because they are long term winners elsewhere and then when games run they try their luck again only to get fked over and over.
Once again this is simply not possible unless every reg is breakevenish pre-rake.. Every game has his winners and even more losers. They cant all get fked over.. on a 6max table, if 6 players get fked over.. how would that work exactly?
You can still make some regulars run way above EV and make it look like the professionals have a realistic chance to make money but more importantly you make most of the regs run really bad but just good enough that they continue depositing and keep losing despite their EV being massively in the green.
Surely if you rig the RNG you wont make players run massively above/under EV, that will catch on. You would rig it by less noticeable things like getting more/less coolers. It al seems a bit convoluted tbh. Most of the regs run really bad but not bad enough that they seek business elsewhere. If i truly felt that the RNG was even slightly influencing my profits I would seek my business elsewhere. Also, if the RNG was affecting EV purely the 1% fee for an EV-cashout suddenly is a no-brainer yet I see no reg doing this often.
Just like a fish who just registered goes on a poker heater, a fish that just registered on 2+2 (with the sn GGruinedPoker to avoid any bias) goes on an insanity heater
I have over 3m in tournament winnings. Btw im only talking about tournaments. Cashgames are prob only action rigged, and not favoring players. Dont think they can get away with that. But the tournament RNG is a 100% rigged against good players. And favoring fishes/less active players/new accounts.
They prob have the best hackers/programmers come up with a solid/airtight scam.
And they can always play the variance, bad player complaining card.
I'm with Slugant. There needs to be way more proof than "feels like its rigged" or anecdotal accounts of people getting rinsed.
Yea thats what worries me about these statements like "100% rigged" & "everyone knows/agrees its rigged". They are so spoken so certain yet they are never accompanied with any proof, just a feeling or a statement.
Also, in many cases its simply impossible like the RNG favoring all players at the same table 
Slugant is a known online poker shill. Just ignore him.
obv every site pays me to shill for their RNG, its a great business model
understanding variance = being a shill
multiple times I was advocating against GG in many ways (i kinda broke my shill duties a bunch of times) like high rake, unknowable pvi system, bad software and i think showing people their graph with the rake paid shown as profit is very sketchy.
I dislike GG for many evidence-based reasons, I dont think their RNG is rigged. If that makes me a shill thats fine
The rigged rng is nearly impossible to prove and that’s why it’s genius. Most of the guys I have talked with, have played 10-20 years of online poker but are not some washed up regs and are winning on other sites.
When you have played forever, you develop a feeling for what is normal and what is not.
Of course we can again make the counter argument that within variance anything is possible and discussing about this is kind of pointless since both sides feel sure about their case but neither one can prove anything.
Somebody should start a new thread ”Do you feel GG is rigged” and a poll with options:
1. Yes (low stakes)
2. No (low stakes)
3. Yes (mid stakes)
3. No (mid stakes)
4. Yes (high stakes)
5. No (high stakes)
6. No comment, want to see the results
This poll is just a suggestion and maybe someone has better way of building it
Why would that be a good idea? If I see reactions from losing players or players with a grudge they always say poker is rigged.. those opinions dont hold any weight. These arent players who understand anything about variance, even on midstakes this is common.
Opinion of 10-20 years active midstakes+ players do carry weight. And you say when you speak to them privately they tell you GG is rigged or seems rigged... Why do they not speak out in any way but do tell you in private??
If you say neither side can prove anything you are wrong.
I can prove the existence of variance with math. I can prove the lenghty arm of variance in a players results with variance calculators. You know variance isnt a gut feeling or an anecdote. Its real and its proven just like pythagorean theorem. For the RNG being rigged i havent seen anything close to evidence. Thats why I am on the side I am on.
Btw, since GG is the biggest many players GG is rigged. But I remember when stars was the biggest they were the rigged ones. In fact of the top10 major sites I've heard anecdotal stories about all of them being rigged. Basically if a player ran or played bad on a site it was rigged. If they were just bad at poker and lost on multiple sites they were all rigged. Its easier to say the RNG is rigged than to admit own shortcomings.
I understand your view and I agree that the magnitude of variance is difficult to understand. But when you have played online all your adult life and millions of hands across various sites, you develop a feel when something is off.
Maybe it’s not the rng, maybe it’s bots who share cards, maybe it’s super users but I’m 100% confident that if someone could review GG’s cash games and tournaments with all the possible data available, the site would be shut down immediately.
Well I have been playing for almost 20 years and have 15m+ hands and on many occasions and on many sites I once had the feeling that there is something off. A brutal downswing and extended period of bad luck does that to you. Its only human and our feelings arent always just, especially when losing money, the human mind is very biased. But then I fool around with a variance calculator and also see a period of extreme bad luck is expected to be found in 15m hands.
The second thing is much more likely to me. And GG isnt good at this either, the whole MoneyTaker69 situation made that clear. And botting/colluding is something that is a problem for every poker player. This however is not a direct manipulation by the pokersite itself and thats huge distinction. How many sites actually have enough resources and will to trace and punish bots/colluders accordingly is very much up to debate. I think in general they are not proactive enough in this area.
I have over 3m in tournament winnings. Btw im only talking about tournaments. Cashgames are prob only action rigged, and not favoring players. Dont think they can get away with that. But the tournament RNG is a 100% rigged against good players. And favoring fishes/less active players/new accounts. They prob have the best hackers/programmers come up with a solid/airtight scam.
Making a fake account and saying things like this actually hurts the credibility of the assertion, not help it. Post under your real account and then maybe people will take you seriously
I understand your view and I agree that the magnitude of variance is difficult to understand. But when you have played online all your adult life and millions of hands across various sites, you develop a feel when something is off.Maybe it’s not the rng, maybe it’s bots who share cards, maybe it’s super users but I’m 100% confident that if someone could review GG’s cash games a
If that's the case, then you should also understand that rake is higher now than ever, rakeback lower than ever, and the players themselves are better on average than ever. Not to mention there are less overall fish in the pool
It's not the variance that's off. It's the fact that people are being driven insane by longer stretches of not winning what they're used to. If you played online on Full Tilt and PokerStars pre Black Friday, there was practically unlimited game selection and an epic pool of fish (particularly US citizens with all the discretionary money in the world to spew) to drain. If you played on PartyPoker pre UIGEA, then it was even more amazing. People were turning 4 figures into 6 figures with ease and the site + skins were practically giving away bonuses on the reg. Bonus whoring used to be a thing...And the player pool had absolutely no clue how to actually play any game variant, giving away money like Peter Griffin in that sports betting scene on Family Guy
Today's games are NOTHING like that. And the effective rake is high af. When the potential player pool goes from 7 billion or whatever to millions or hundreds of thousands, there is way, way less money around for the sharks to split up...
That said, it would be nice if all of the people who really believe (insert site name here, because this exact convo has come up for almost EVERY site I've ever played on) is RNG rigged, then pool your database of hands and find the discrepancies. There is an expert in the "Online Poker Is Rigged" thread who is already doing this work. His name is Johnmir. Collab w him. Prove to the world what scumbags all these sites are. I'll gladly eat my words bc if that's what's going on, then it's ****ed up full stop
Tbh CoinPoker feels eerily similar - the amount of regs that run insane bad and disappear only to be replaced with new people who are clearly competent and then run hot, only to bust and rinse repeat.
Tbh thats the life of +-2bb shitreg. Had winrate of 8bb there on plo5 on 50k sample.
Mr Slugant, few questions : ( about tournaments )
1. Do u think they would make a lot more money if they had an algorithm determining skill level of players, ( which they do - The Player Value Index, google it ) .
and would favor less killed players/ new accounts with their RNG ? ( lot more premiums pre, manipulated boards/ runouts )
2. Do u think they are capable of developing such a software ?
3 Are they making decisions based on on how much money they will make ?
Its the perfect scam because of the variance card
If theres a way to investigate all my allin hands im sure proof will be found. . If someone could do that sent me a dm pls
https://www.yourpokerdream.com/overview-dealspartner/gg-poker-network/ggpoker-rakeback/pvi-at-ggpoker/
Mr Slugant, few questions : ( about tournaments )1. Do u think they would make a lot more money if they had an algorithm determining skill level of players, ( which they do - The Player Value Index, google it ) . and would favor less killed players/ new accounts with their RNG ( lot more premiums pre, manipulated boards/ runouts )2. Do u think they are capable of developing s
fwiw i exclusively play cash games but i'll answer your questions
1. I actually said above that I find the PVI very shady. Whats shady about it is that they advertise 50% rakeback but when i was crushing the games too hard i calculated that my pvi was 0.25 and I only got 12,5% rb. Leaderboard volume crushers who were losing pre-rb got a better PVI but still not the rb advertised. This is shady business to me.
However, the PVI only influences the rakeback divisor. It favors new and losing accounts in the rakeback percentage. There never has been any proof that it influences stuff like favored runouts or more premium hands. Since GG hands are tracked and can be bought, this would be easily provable. They would make more money in the very short run but once its proven that they favor new and losing accounts those players (who provide the volume and rake paid) would leave.
2. I do think they are capable of doing this, I think any site is. I think a lot of live poker dealers are able to rig the deck. I also strongly believe this is not in their best interest. It would make them less money in the long run and thats what matters to them.
3. Same answer as 2.
You can investigate your own hands. You can download your hands from GG and import them in a tracker. I dont know if you have made a big enough sample to prove anything but im interested in the results nonetheless.
It should be noticed though that your method of acting is backwards.
First you make an account with the name of GGruinedPoker and post that it is rigged.
Than you ask people if there is a way to investigate your hands...
Normally you would first investigate and then post your conclusion, now its just a hunch or a feeling. Unfortunately those wont get us nowhere.
Making a fake account and saying things like this actually hurts the credibility of the assertion, not help it. Post under your real account and then maybe people will take you seriouslyIf that's the case, then you should also understand that rake is higher now than ever, rakeback lower than ever, and the players themselves are better on average than ever. Not to mention there
This, unfortunately, is the truth behind most of the "rigged rants". There is simply is way less money in poker. I am 10 times the poker player I was 12 years ago, yet the money was so more easy to be made back then.
I would advise any serious investigators not to team up with Johnmir though. And I think you call him an expert with a huge level of irony. But he is not serious or capable to ever prove anything about poker. I would welcome anyone who is thinking the RNG is rigged to really dig deep and so dome serious unbiased research.
I understand your view and I agree that the magnitude of variance is difficult to understand. But when you have played online all your adult life and millions of hands across various sites, you develop a feel when something is off.Maybe it’s not the rng, maybe it’s bots who share cards, maybe it’s super users but I’m 100% confident that if someone could review GG’s cash games a
Feelings in situations like yours are highly impacted by recency and confirmation biases.
