The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched
John, So if the A2o and all the other hands did exactly as you've planned why did you remove the stream out of shame??? Remember John, I watched it. You were surprised that the flop was good for A2o, you didnt predict that at all. So you were wrong. You cannot delete the stuff and now claim like everything went according to plan.
Also, playing a push-or-fold strat 75bb deep isnt really a great idea😉
Good bye John.
I will controll the chat. Participate in discussions. But i'm not able to do any special calculations/streams/huge comments any more.
Wait.. No good bye??
Btw, you were never able to any special calculations, streams or comments 😉
But you give it an amateurs' try. Please feel free to stay away from discussions or chat since you already embarrassed yourself enough.
I mean, is he a son of the forum's owner or what is going on here? Some "untouchable" person?
This is really how your brain works on every aspect of life huh Johnny.
If something isnt to your liking their must be some conspiracy behind it...
You lose at poker --> ALL sites are rigged
Gambling comissions dont take your ramblings serious --> They must be in on the fraud
People here disagree with you --> They must be a shill
You want people removed for disagreeing with you --> They must know people in high places
John, im 100% serious now, you need medication. You are likely schizophrenic. You see the world as a movie where everyone is secretly plotting against you and its all connected somehow.
Its not. The way you view things isnt reality. In fact, its very far from it. You are not living the life you think you are living, its all a lie. And you are not an elite player being screwed over by the big coorporations, you are just somehow who is very very bad at poker.
It would be best for you to leave online poker entirely and get some mental help. GL with that.
This is basically an anonymous, uncensored, free speech, open forum, (within sensible reason). It allows users to "ignore" other users by software means at https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/profi..., (although most users simply choose not to respond to other users who annoy them in some way or other). For some users, debating with some other users never leads
Mike, thank you for explanation. I'm serious.
Yes, I thought it was different. I mean, I communicated here in what people call "civilized" manner. Okay, I won't appeal to the rules any more, excuse me.
Is it possible to rename "2+2 Rules" into "2+2 Guidelines" section -
Because, it misleads forum users? There are no rules here, since there is no responsibility for insulting, suicide provocations and all the other stuff that is forbidden by laws of modern countries.
I had to follow the rules, while I was communicating to people here and I don't think I'm alone who got this like that.
John, So if the A2o and all the other hands did exactly as you've planned why did you remove the stream out of shame??? Remember John, I watched it. You were surprised that the flop was good for A2o, you didnt predict that at all. So you were wrong. You cannot delete the stuff and now claim like everything went according to plan.Also, playing a push-or-fold strat 75bb deep isnt
I don't see a reason to keep 7 hands lenght stream on youtube, it's senseless. But I don't see a problem to post all the hands here -
(I folded preflop)
(I folded preflop)
(I folded preflop)
(I folded preflop)
(I folded preflop)
(I folded preflop)
(I push 55 and lose the tournament)
The problem is that after all the discussions, you still think, that when a player folded a hand, the flop will remain the same as it would be in case the player wouldn't fold
Do you understand this message of Mike?
I think I've figured out how 888 rigs its deck. Others can check their stats to see if they agree.Once you fold preflop, the cards that would have fitted with yours in some way or other are brought to the top and used as part of the community cards. The point of this is so the player starts to think he should have played the cards, and to encourage, (tilt?), him into widening h
And do you understand, that when you say "you are stupid to think about that" it directly goes to Mike's address?
It's not an analogy, it's a fact.
No, only those, who don't reply to messages which contain ANY materials regarding the room's working process. Obviously - yes, it's covering of the fraud.
No, only those, who insult and lie about me in the chat.
First of all John, you already said your goodbye, what are you still doing here?:P
Secondly, you want to live your life according to the laws of a modern country??? Then gtfo of Russia you moron. You live off welfare checks from Putin, you have no moral highground to stand on.
I don't see a reason to keep 7 hands lenght stream on youtube, it's senseless. But I don't see a problem to post all the hands here -
You know damn well why you deleted the stream. Because everything you said turned out to be wrong. If you just post the hands here we dont hear you talk about it.
When the a42 flop came and you hit it you were surprised, even saying beforehand you wont hit this flop because of last hands blablabla (You are going to deny this, but please do by reuploading the stream so everyone has evidence of this!).
Then later on the forum you say "yes the software generates the flop for the hand" but again that is afterwards. I actually know the algorithm 100% correctly afterwards and so does everyone else. Its meaningless. Your claims and "predictions" are meaningless.
The stream was interesting in that it showed a middleaged mentally ill man pushing random hands 75bb and claiming everyone was against him. It would make an interesting case subject for a psychiatrist. You have only one reason to delete the stream and that is because every single world you've spoken turned out to be incorrect. Wanna prove me wrong? Reupload the stream!
The problem is that after all the discussions, you still think, that when a player folded a hand, the flop will remain the same as it would be in case the player wouldn't fold
Do you understand this message of Mike?
You still have delivered 0,0% proof that flops differ when folding/not folding. All you do is afterwards say "look, I would have hit that flop"... useless stuff.
About Mike's message.. Do you understand it??
I know English isnt your first languague but you cant be that stupid right??
This was an obvious (the most obvious) troll against rng conspiracy theorist. And you just fall for it, like a complete idiot. Or is it that you want to believe so hard that you're right that you just take anything that goes along with your craziness and are oblivious for the context? The point of this trollpost was that its just a list of starting hands and flops typed down. It holds no truth and it proves nothing, never was there any mention of evidence, just rambling. Just like everything you do.
Why would you think Mike has disagreed on basically everything with you but 1 post from 2015 fits your story (which again, was a troll post) and you take it to heart.
I dont know if you are so bad at English, so oblivious, so stupid or all of the above.
Facts can be proven. So prove it!
Obvious in the mind of a Russian microstakes James Bond wannabe. Its the all-telling story of Johnmir. Everything and everyone that doesnt comply with this view on poker is OBVIOUSLY a fraud. John, have you ever ever considered that maybe those millions of people arent wrong and its you thats wrong?
And it was a huge mistake of predicting the software. Yes, I commit mistakes, I'm "out of business" at the moment.
Weird mistake for a 99.999999999% certain algorithm.
You made mistakes the entire stream John. And you were never ever "in business"
I think you got a friend actually Johnny. Because its another guy who cant do math😀
You think this helps your case but just a snippet of reactions to this man:
"Sure, I'll explain; your calculations are wrong. Fancy writing all that crap and clicking Post without checking things through."
"I don’t know where the AI came up with this calculation, but it’s wrong."
Solid stuff LOLOL
But here is a problem. He only knows the word "variance", nothing more. And he is very proud of himself.
Is this an insult??? MODSSS MODSS please come in and arrest this man. Ban him, he is being mean to me LOLOL
I have to say John, I love the irony of you saying "he is very proud of himself" just after you quoted a message of your own to show how good you are at making variance calculations saying " Imagine Slugant would give this answer on the question about a variance " like you just discovered the higgs boson.
But its kidsplay math you show. You think you are a clever maths expert, you're not. They also usually play higher than 0.20 sngs btw :p
Just reupload the stream to show the world what a psychopath you really are. It was a great comedy of errors and by deleting it you've taken away a lot of laughs from the public.
John Mile Haven was messing with you.
he was making fun of the fact that your real riggy theory is basically the same as the one he made up for fun.
I explained that to him several times but he refuses to acknowledge the irony
And then he says "And do you understand, that when you say "you are stupid to think about that" it directly goes to Mike's address?"
So funny. It goes directly to someone who was making of fun of Johnmir's deranged theories?? Yes Please
So hilarious that someone makes fun of you and of your theory and you cite it as something that speaks for you 😃😃😃 so clueless are you
lol 2 things can be true... johnmir knows online is rigged (which it is) ... and slugant is a shill who works for online poker.
Nobody has the time Slugant does to respond like he does and to stalk two plus two he clearly works for online poker in some way
actually when you are good at poker you have a lot of free time 😉 And I am not spending my time making insane excel sheets and excessively preparing streams that are deleted within minutes afterwards🙂
also I can type and play some tables simultaneously.
Unlike johnny who cant even press play on a stream and play 1 table simultaneously 🙂
Also, I am not stalking. I am simply responding.
He once challenged me to a HU match and I accepted, still waiting though.
John is an expert level professional player and knows the boards so how can he lose right?? And he for sure needs the money because in the stream it showed his BR is only $13:p
lol 2 things can be true... johnmir knows online is rigged (which it is) ... and slugant is a shill who works for online poker.
Nobody has the time Slugant does to respond like he does and to stalk two plus two he clearly works for online poker in some way
What exactly is a "shill who works for online poker"?
And where can I collect my cheques? I think im overdue some payment🙂
Johnmir isnt the great poker player he thinks he is but he does see online is rigged and showed some good evidence through statistics others dont usually pay attention too... yes hes a bit delusional but his feeling is correct.
Slugant maybe really is just somebody who enjoys debates and exposing crying "riggies" haha... BUT i mean GG has literally been caught allowing superusers and allowing huge collusion rings and they never did anything about it until it became too obvious and people exposed it...... GG poker is literally a criminal operation.. they are allowing cheating.. and for some reason Slugant just completely ignores this and acts like all online poker sites are holier than thou haha... Thats why i dont trust you
When were they caught allowing superusers and where were they exposed?
Links, please.
Thank you.
*
Edit: I see https://www.pokernews.com/news/2023/12/g... but isn't this about a hacker, not someone they allowed to play?
and for some reason Slugant just completely ignores this and acts like all online poker sites are holier than thou haha... Thats why i dont trust you
You cant read that well cant you?
Ive said numerous times what I think is wrong with GG and its a lot.
I think with superuser you are indeed referring to the moneytaker69 situation where a hack allowed him to see the equity percentage. But they did not "allow" him to superuse, of course not. Obviously very very bad stuff but this does not mean poker and the rng are rigged, completely seperate things.
I do believe the RNG is fair till proven otherwise. And why in the history of online poker has there never been a rigged rng discoverd? Colliders, bots, RTA'ers and other type of cheating has been caught enough, but never ever a tampering with the RNG.
When were they caught allowing superusers and where were they exposed?
Links, please.
Thank you.
*
Edit: I see https://www.pokernews.com/news/2023/12/g... but isn't this about a hacker, not someone they allowed to play?
After determining how the user was cheating, they actually did allow the user to play several weeks before finally banning the user. IIRC they implemented a fix in a client update but did not reboot the system to force users to log back in, which was the mechanism that triggered the update. So, because they didn't want to schedule a shutdown and lose revenue the user was allowed to play for several additional weeks.
And for those (for all intent) still claiming how perfect PRNGs are, here from wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorand...
In practice, the output from many common PRNGs exhibit artifacts that cause them to fail statistical pattern-detection tests. These include:
Shorter-than-expected periods for some seed states (such seed states may be called "weak" in this context);
Lack of uniformity of distribution for large quantities of generated numbers;
Correlation of successive values;
Poor dimensional distribution of the output sequence;
Distances between where certain values occur are distributed differently from those in a random sequence distribution.
Defects exhibited by flawed PRNGs range from unnoticeable (and unknown) to very obvious. An example was the RANDU random number algorithm used for decades on mainframe computers. It was seriously flawed, but its inadequacy went undetected for a very long time.
In many fields, research work prior to the 21st century that relied on random selection or on Monte Carlo simulations, or in other ways relied on PRNGs, were much less reliable than ideal as a result of using poor-quality PRNGs.[4] Even today, caution is sometimes required, as illustrated by the following warning in the International Encyclopedia of Statistical Science (2010).[5]
The list of widely used generators that should be discarded is much longer [than the list of good generators]. Do not trust blindly the software vendors. Check the default RNG of your favorite software and be ready to replace it if needed. This last recommendation has been made over and over again over the past 40 years. Perhaps amazingly, it remains as relevant today as it was 40 years ago.
Here is what my stats showed. An ace appeared on the flop (much) more often than it should, based on the probability, when I had pocket kings. I connected significantly less often with the flop than I should, based on the probability, when I had AK, AQ, AJ. Three suited appeared on the board more often, based on the probability, that it should when I hit a straight or a set. Oh and guess what, correlation of successive values is a know problem with PRNGs.
And before someone says more stupid stuff like ace not immediately following pocket kings (you know who I'm talking about), while often used interchangeably, "consecutive" specifically implies values that follow each other in order without any gaps or missing values. "Successive" is a broader term that can include sequences with gaps or non-integer differences.
And I'm pretty sure the GG Poker's RNG shows many of the distribution issues mentioned as well.
Again, their handling of the moneytaker69 situation was terrible. It should have never happened and in fact his cheating ways were discovered by players before the GG security staff. Who then werent very pro-active as well. Terrible by GG. However, this has nothing to do with their RNG. You understand this right?
Also, if you have solid stats that prove an A comes more when you have KK that significantly differs from its expected outcome, show it. Dont just say it, if you have the proof show it. Then we will finally get somewhere.
About the whole PRNG stuff, I think you have hit your last resort. Nobody ever was talking about a PRNG, because the P stands for Pseudo. This makes it a completely different thing than an RNG. A PRNG is predictable by nature whereas an RNG is not.
Kudos for quoting wikipedia about a PRNG but it actually disproves your point because it says:
"The output from many common PRNGs exhibit artifacts that cause them to fail statistical pattern-detection tests."
But GG as other big sites have their RNG's tested to make sure its not a PRNG and they all passed this test. So one of the few things you can be sure off is that they are not using a PRNG, because the output of the PRNG would fail this test but the pokersites' RNG pass it. Its independently verified. But I guess you dont trust these companies either and they are all in on the concpiracy or something. Otherwise you could sleep well knowing it doesnt use a PRNG.
If you wikisearched a bit further to see the difference between a PRNG and an RNG (which, once again, is what the poker sites are using) you can read this:
"PRNGs are deterministic, meaning their output is predictable if the seed is known. RNGs are non-deterministic, with outputs that are unpredictable."
"In simpler terms:
Imagine you have a recipe for making a cake. A PRNG is like using the same recipe every time – you'll always get the same cake (number sequence) if you start with the same ingredients (seed). A RNG is like throwing a bunch of ingredients together randomly and hoping for a delicious cake – you'll never get the exact same cake twice."
Honest question, if poker sites were using a PRNG how do they all pass independent RNG tests from several autonomous professional testing labs?
In the case of GG, its tested last year by BMM testlabs which is "BMM Testlabs is the longest-established and most experienced private independent gaming test laboratory in the world". They reside in Nevada where GG doesnt even operate. The check has been issued from Singapore, where GG also doesnt operate. If they would be falsifying rng certificates for GG it would be one hell of a scheme.
certificate:
I rarely play GG because i dont like the software, so I have no bone in this fight. But lets keep things factual and if you claim something is off prove it. And proving something is different from quoting an unrelated wikipedia page.
After determining how the user was cheating, they actually did allow the user to play several weeks before finally banning the user. IIRC they implemented a fix in a client update but did not reboot the system to force users to log back in, which was the mechanism that triggered the update. So, because they didn't want to schedule a shutdown and lose revenue the user was allowe
Too bad you weren't able to google "Hardware RNG" and now you look like an utter fool that has been frozen in 2010 and was now defrozen.
For the frozen guy:
"A Random Number Generator (RNG) is a computer program that creates random numerical combinations. There are two main types:
Software-based. These pseudo-random generators produce number sequences based on a predetermined initial value. Since the starting point is fixed, the resulting combinations are also predictable.
Hardware-based. These use varying initial values for each sequence, drawing from an entropy source for input data. In computers, this might include processor rhythm, board vibrations, etc.
Don’t confuse RNG with PRNG (Pseudo-Random Number Generator). The latter is predictable, and with effort, its algorithm can be cracked to forecast sequences. Thus, a PRNG can be “hacked”—its patterns deciphered to predict outcomes.
One of the primary responsibilities of any online poker room is ensuring the secure generation of random card sequences and reliable data transfer between the server and game client. This makes pseudo-random software generators unacceptable, as they’re vulnerable to hacking, allowing malicious actors to access number sequences—and thus know opponents’ cards.
To prove their RNGs are secure and reliable, poker rooms obtain certification. For example, PokerStars’ RNG is certified by Cigital, one of the world’s most reputable certification firms. For objective testing, RNGs undergo the NIST test suite, based on the U.S. FIPS 140-2 standard."
Guys, I have finally finished the article about my communication with gambling supervision authorities. Hope this experience will give us more information, what is really going on in online-poker.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/292/o...
Have fun!
P.S. I wasn't here because of an intensive tennis coaching )) And all the free time I used to finish the final report regarding iPoker's fraud. Now I'm going to read latest news. I can see Amazing is back 😀
Again, their handling of the moneytaker69 situation was terrible. It should have never happened and in fact his cheating ways were discovered by players before the GG security staff. Who then werent very pro-active as well. Terrible by GG. However, this has nothing to do with their RNG. You understand this right?Also, if you have solid stats that prove an A comes more when you
Thats good and all but how do you explain Amazing loosing money than?
I am sure he is also a professional level top 10% pokerplayer.
Cant happen in a fair game.
Check and mate!
Guys, I have finally finished the article about my communication with gambling supervision authorities. Hope this experience will give us more information, what is really going on in online-poker.https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/292/o...Have fun! P.S. I wasn't here becau
When are they csoign down online poker should i withdraw my money already?
Thats good and all but how do you explain Amazing loosing money than?
I am sure he is also a professional level top 10% pokerplayer.
Cant happen in a fair game.
Check and mate!
Damn you got me... it must be rigged then. Because Amazing is a certified self-proclaimed genius just like Johnmir😃
Also Johnmir didnt say he was top10%, he claimed he was top1%. Didnt knew if he was in fact worse than Linus. Sounds like a joke but he honestly said that.
Poker is just as rigged as tennis I suppose 🙂
Who do you think pays BMM Testlabs? Would it be GGPoker? What would happen to BMM Testlabs if the majority of RNGs tested failed their certification. No conflict of interest there.
But as usual we have clowns, who can't actually put a scratch in my statements, first claiming sample size isn't big enough (that went so badly for you didn't it Slugant, LOL), then data is fake, then claiming you can sue the online poker sites (truly stupid), now I'm a losing player. Nothing that disproves my statements, what a surprise, LOL. I will acknowledge I have lost about $200 overall but considering I'm losing over 50% of my EV with my all-in equity about 51.5%, I think that's unbelievably good. I don't think anyone here would have done better.
As far as the level of testing, RNGs are used for encryption as well as gambling sites but the level of testing for randomness for encryption is at a far higher level than for online gambling. For all intent RNGs for online gambling is self-regulated. And people who want to claim they use the best RNGs for online gambling are truly delusional.
Of course now the testers are in the conspiracy... dont let your imagination stop you i guess. The pokersites are in on it, people who grant the license are in on it, the people who test the license are in on it, the people on the forum who disagree with you are in on it. You and Johnmir should quit poker and start writing sci-fi distopia books.
But since you knew the RNG testers were on it, why didnt you open with that then?
Because a few days ago your main point was quoting a wikipedia page of PRNG's because you dont have a clue what you are talking about and didnt even understand the difference between software and hardware rng.
But kudos for being only down $200, world effort.
See Slugant i told you the nonsense you quote about tests and staitistcs mean zilch.
Amazing is loosing and he is at least better then everybody on here.
Not only that he is also very humble.
So obviously its rigged.
Amazing explain again how exactly this works?
So the rng is not as the labs and and sites claim a hardware rng but a pseudo rng.
The artifacts that the pseudo rng sometimes may exhibit just happen to line up and casue you speciffacally more bad run outs then expected?
That about right?
Or is there some kind of planning behind targeting you?
Is it like in Johnmirs case, the sites just try to hold you as the new mega crusher back?
Maybe you arent playing enough tables. Johmir has found out in his research that you just have to play enough tables and the rng will stop treating you bad.
maybe that will help.
It is if course possible that you are simply t00 good of a player to be able to win in that case even 12+ tables might not be enough.
Well, lets not get ahead of ourselves here Tennis is super mega rigged. I keep on losing game after game although I am a top 1% professional level player.
I did not know about the volume but it checks out. I play without sound all the time and sometimes I run bad so the volume rig is confirmed.
Man somebody should write to the regulators about this.
