In a blender with pocket tens
1-2 Mohegan Sun Tuesday early evening
H - unknown in the room, play here once or twice a year. Should have a tight but probably passive image, losing image. 400ish effective
V - middle age white woman, everytime I’ve been here she’s been here, she seems like a tight competent player. Barely covers H
Otth -
Pre - H in button facing a few limps raises to 15 with red tens. Short stack in sb goes all in for 60, V cold calls the 60 in the BB.
H debates about 4 betting but couldn’t come up with a size that wouldn’t commit us post flop - maybe 150??
Flop (185ish)
9c4h2d
Pretty good flop for tens until V open jams For my remaining 350. H??
16 Replies
Fold. I would assume this is QQ+ and maybe not even QQ. There's no way this is a bluff, especially with the dry side pot, and it isn't really possible for her to be overvaluing a worse hand.
This is a spot where you are allowed to fold everything (2x pot jam multiway into a dry side pot), and you can easily have 99 here too.
This looks like a protection bet. If you think V is too tight to have 88/77 or 9x, snap fold. You will see her hand anyway.
Unless V is a loose fish otherwise it's never a 4bet. If it is a 4bet, jamming i probably the only size.
I might even fold to the cold call if she's really 'tight competent'.
Calling is fine as well, we are checking down for a free showdown unless we hit a t.
I agree with Dan, although I think JJ and maybe the other pair of TT can be in her range as well. I know a couple players at Mohegan Sun that meet V's description and none of them are showing up with worse here.
What was short stack SB up to? Jamming any two playable cards, or waiting for a premium? Just thinking there is a chance that jamming TT pre can get V to fold her entire range, which could be really good here if we know V has equity and SB is likely behind.
Do not, I repeat DO NOT, 4bet jam TT as a bluff vs. Mohegan tight 1-2 players here.
Actual HH from a week ago (thursday high hand promo):
UTG opens to 15 (been doing spewy large opens as well as limping, and playing 60-80% VPIP and calling wide post)
next guy calls (has adjusted to UTG by calling big raises like it's a normal raise size)
I have red KK next to act and make it 55
Tight old guy next to me who has raised maybe 3 hands in the last two hours cold calls (and I've played with him before anyway)
folds to SB who is young spewy agro, and been running hotter than the sun, cold 4bets to 200 (has me covered)
UTG doesn't think long and shoves for 250ish
Folds to me with 620ish and the old guy behind me has 250 to 300 behind.
I tank and decide old guy more likely to have QQ (as AA probably raises instead of calls); UTG gambling and SB likely being too agro ... So shove, old guy calls, and SB tank folds saying he had AKo... Turn was an A and four clubs hit, but everyone else mucks.
...now SB agro monkey shouldn't be 4betting AKo here IMNSHO and old tight guy should snap fold QQ to my 5bet, but like just have KK+ here and fold otherwise and it's not close.
As to the hand, WP ... if BB somehow has worse, make a mental note. If a T hits turn or river, shrug and forget about it.
The one configuration where I do 4bet TT is if it's like:
H as BTN opens 12 with TT
SB calls
BB shoves 60
H call/4bet?
...but even in that configuration I've occasionally run into QQ/JJ from SB, but I also don't shove if SB has 300+ (if you make it 160 and they shove ... you aren't priced in and can find out what they have by folding).
IMO there are good spots to shove 4bet shove TT in theory, but the conditions don't often exist at live $1/$2 (100bb deep facing an aggressive 3bettor and a loose cold caller). I don't think this is a good spot for it because BB has a really strong range. Sure, she folds JJ and maybe AKo (and maaaaaybe QQ), but when she calls you are dead in a gigantic pot. Also sometimes she folds and you are still dead against the SB.
Plus, with the dry side pot, by calling you get to play IP against someone who will be forced to play her hand face up. Case in point: OP's situation.
lol, to be fair, I was specifically thinking of one middle-aged woman who fits the description of V (honestly there aren't a ton, depending on our definition of "competent") who was at the table for this HH:
JJ - Many limps, I iso SB huge, fish reg in BB 3b small, folds back to me and I call 200bb deep. Flop is J-high and goes I x, BB pots it, I call. Turn pairs the bottom card, I x, BB ob jam, I snap and fastroll, BB shows KK and river bricks.
Afterwards, V was like, "What was BB doing in that hand?"
I: "No clue."
V: "He should have raised way bigger pre. You are never folding JJ when he raises that small."
I: "I think I would fold QQ on the turn, too."
V: "I would fold QQ on the flop."
tl;dr Mohegan Sun is a special place
Like I mentioned in the OP - MS is not my main room, and I usually go once a year to kick off summer break. Ive gone now 4 years in a row and I never remember it being such a TIGHT player pool. Granted I played 14 hours / 3 sessions on a Tuesday - Wednesday period, but here are some of the things I witnessed this past week.
1. Wednesday morning game at like 10:30 - game is tight and as OMC heavy as you can imagine. Old man opens to 12 in EP gets 3 callers !! and starts mumbling under his breath and shaking his head. Bets 100 in to about 50 on a Jack high board wins on the flop and quickly flips over KKs
2. In each session including one around 11pm a player accused the dealer of taking out one more extra dollar from the rake
3. On too many hands to count numerous times players would just limp with tens, jacks, AK suited, queens, etc....
4. A player around 11:30 pm complained the 1/2 table was playing like a 2/5 because a pf bet of 10 was called by 4 other players
5. The dealers of the room are by far the biggest rule fanatics I have ever seen. Anytime a player had their phone out, on the rail, or on the felt they would say something. One time a player in the SB wanted to raise to 6 (put a 5 +1 chip out), and was told his bet didnt stand because of the 'one chip rule'. Another player had a stack of 301 (2 stacks of red, 1 stack of green, 1 one dollar chip) and had the 1 on top of the 4 greens, which were on top of the red stack, and was told to take the chip off to make all high chips visible.........
Results
So obviously I put V on a bigger OP like JJ-QQ who wanted to see 'a safe flop' before puttting more money into the pot.
I think for about 30 seconds, and I fold under the impression that I do not have to show.
Once I fold short stack flips over JJ board runs out all low cards to the 9, and main V never shows...................AP maybe she had A9? or 88?
Results
So obviously I put V on a bigger OP like JJ-QQ who wanted to see 'a safe flop' before puttting more money into the pot.
I think for about 30 seconds, and I fold under the impression that I do not have to show.
Once I fold short stack flips over JJ board runs out all low cards to the 9, and main V never shows...................AP maybe she had A9? or 88?
AK probably
To clarify I folded under the impression that she would have to show***
Jam pre and watch her fold queens face up.
Results
So obviously I put V on a bigger OP like JJ-QQ who wanted to see 'a safe flop' before puttting more money into the pot.
I think for about 30 seconds, and I fold under the impression that I do not have to show.
Once I fold short stack flips over JJ board runs out all low cards to the 9, and main V never shows...................AP maybe she had A9? or 88?
Weird result but I think you played this hand well.
There is one player I am thinking of at MS that matches your description that I have seen completely spazz with AK before (as in, massive overbet jam on the flop with no pair no draw). Guessing something similar happened here, even if it isn't the same player. Good thing to take a note on, like illiterat mentioned. If I was in your spot playing against this player, I think I would still fold even knowing they can randomly have AK sometimes.
Like I mentioned in the OP - MS is not my main room, and I usually go once a year to kick off summer break. Ive gone now 4 years in a row and I never remember it being such a TIGHT player pool. Granted I played 14 hours / 3 sessions on a Tuesday - Wednesday period, but here are some of the things I witnessed this past week.1. Wednesday morning game at like 10:30 - game is tight
I think that part of the reason that the dealers are so fanatical about the rules is the BBJ. Lots of the dealers and players here seem to live for the possibility of the BBJ and dealers are sensitive about scenarios (e.g. a phone out on the table) that can negate a payout.
In my last half dozen sessions or so I have seen KK and AA flat a preflop raise multiple times each. I also saw a guy fold KK face up to a single preflop 3bet. QQ and JJ flatting (or even limp-calling a raise) is basically standard. The games just play a bit differently here, particularly those weekday early morning games. Being able to snap fold marginal value facing big bets and raises versus these players makes games a bit easier to play than some other rooms though, IMO.
