Family pot. me without a medical use card.

Bet/fold for small-ish, maybe $75?

Pre-flop is a spot to make a disciplined fold. I’ve called in this spot before too but it is not a winning play. The raise is small but it’s a high rake game playing OOP multi-way so you still need to wait for better hands.

Fold pf. You hit a miracle flop and you are still haven't taken the lead by putting any money in the pot by the turn.

Dan GK

venice10

I thought the reason for playing these type of hands is that the flop will either hit you hard and you can continue or you miss and can give up. What if my hand was suited? I normally fear flush over flush especially when multi-way. Is it still a fold?

That's like saying it takes "discipline" to not lick one's hands after crapping and wiping.

As Venice said, you just aren’t going to make a big hand often enough and when you do it’s hard to get paid. Rake is a big factor in these spots too.

If I had 86s in your spot pre-flop I would make it $45 and expect to take it down pre-flop almost every time. The BTN iso-raise to $6 is extremely weak. If you get called, you have initiative, a playable hand, and an uncapped range.

Pre is insanity

If your opponents are paying attention, then they know that you are loose-passive preflop.

Preflop is indeed terrible (and the way I read it, you're less likely to play 86s than 86o in case you get outflushed, which is bizarre logic, but in any event both are snap folds every single time)

Flopping weak trips OOP multiway is the stuff of nightmares. On a rainbow board you're not in need of a huge amount of protection but I'd probably still just lead out small and hope for the best, but I'm never in this spot.

Turn I like a lead; check-raise is borderline overplay unless there are enough people who are going to call a raise with a random Ace.

If you're sure your opponent is going to make calling mistakes then a bet-fold for a modest size (this player has limp-called from EP, call-call on turn so an exceptionally passive line) would seem to be the best play, but really you need to snap out of getting involved in situations like this

Dan GK wrote

This is what I did. I meant to make it $60, but counted my chips wrong and made it $75 by mistake.
V very quickly went all in. I couldn't think of any hands I could beat. I decided almost immediately to fold, but "thought about" it for show, before folding.
V showed 87o for a rivered full house.

matzah_ball wrote

are you talking about the table as a whole or my play specifically?

WereBeer wrote

I'm not sure what you mean here. This hand I played preflop passively. I thought the turn I was aggressive (maybe too aggressive, But no one raised so I thought I was the only one with an 8). My VPIP is <20% and I'm raising about 90% of those. It may not be easy to see on this hand, But Preflop I'm the nittiest player in the casino. I actually thought this could be a leak. Are you saying that my opponents may notice this hand and read me as loose-passive?

moxterite wrote

with 86s I'm considering to 3-bet in this spot. Like Dan GK said BU's raise was weak and noone else showed any strength, dead money, take the initiative, yada yada. In a 3-bet pot, If I'm outflushed I'm going broke. In a single raised pot I'm going to play carefully, unless I'm against a maniac or a known bluffer.

My turn bet got two folds and one caller who was ahead of me. So I guess I did overplay this hand. Live and learn I suppose.

I'm saying that if you call in this spot preflop, you call much too wide preflop. Therefore opponents who observe the manner in which you play will consider you to be loose-passive preflop, which is not a TAG.

Fold preflop. Bet flop.

Not wanting to debate your TAG image, but it always amuses me when someone says they should be perceived as TAG, then proceeds to tell us how they played some garbage hand from OOP.

If this was 86s, I might flick in the call. 86o is a little too trashy for me, and I'm saying that as a LAG who loves playing all sorts of trashy $hlt.

Anyway, about this hand...

PRE - fold.

FLOP - multi-way, I think I'd prefer to just come out and donk here, for like 1/3 or even 1/2 pot. If we check and no one bets, we lose a street of value. If we check raise, it looks insanely strong when we could have a lot of 8x in the BB, and generates too much fold equity.

TURN - as played to this point, when the flop checks through, I'm definitely betting out on that ace. Someone in this pot has an ace, and they're NEVER folding it to a single bet. I think I come out and bet pot.

As played -- when UTG bets $15 and gets two calls, we definitely need to raise much larger than $60. I think we can make it $120, at least. Maybe even $150.

RIVER - Yeesh. I take it we don't have any clubs in our hand? I think maybe we block bet for 1/2 pot here, and fold to a raise. Pray V just has AX and is just being stubborn.

So...your opponent also mis-played his hand, which is something you'll see a lot while playing low-stakes. it's important to separate our analysis of what we're doing from what we see our opponents doing, so that we don't miss opportunities to improve.

He should have folded 87o pre, not limped in with it. He also should have bet the flop, and raised turn. In his spot, I'd have 3B over your turn raise, I think, at least some of the time. When you bet small on the river, I'd have paused long enough to think about what sort of range you might have, and how to extract max value from that range.

Even though he had us beat the whole way, it's worth going back to pre-flop and critiquing all our decisions from the moment the cards are dealt. The decision to play 86o is a mistake, which gets compounded on later streets, but all of those follow-on mistakes could be easily avoided by just folding pre.

Once we decide not to fold pre, we should be trying to get max value when we flop trips. Even with weak trips, we'll usually have the best hand here, and can get value from our opponents draws, 5x, and un-paired over-cards.

ETA - as an aside, multi-way pots can get weird quickly, and it's often best to play our hands in a more straightforward way. If we had just come out and donked small on the flop, V might have raised. There's a chance we might have been able to get away from this hand at some point before the river, or just lost less.