Pot sweetener

You can overlimp some junky hands on the button like JTo or 64s, trying to hit big for 1bb in position. Raising these hands with no fold equity is a punt, especially combined with most players’ tendency to over cbet.

It is virtually never going to be optimal to limp in low stakes games deep stacked with high rake.

Fold equity isn’t needed to be +EV, you don’t have to go heads up every time. If they’re calling every time they limp and they’re limping often it means they’re getting to the flop often with a very wide and capped range. Playing multiway in position against opponents with weak ranges is a good thing.

If you aren’t +EV raising JTo and 64s from the B over limpers in live low stakes games, you need to get better

Tell me more about these profitable spots with 64s in position as pfr 4-6 ways.

It really depends on stack sizes, imo.

The more massive stacks are, the more this is fine as you're just pumping the pot a bit and yet still playing a very high SPR pot where position and skill will reign.

But at much smaller stacks and therefore creating much more smaller SPRs, I actually think it is quite a mistake to do this with anything other than the complete top of our range and meanwhile everything else would be better off overlimped. IMO.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I've been on the record saying you should polarize here and limp medium strength hands (say: top 7.5-22.5% hands) and polarizing with a big raise with hands that are above and below that threshold.

That leads to pretty opposite play from what a lot of people generally argue for here, so we'll just have to wait for nodelocked preflop charts to prove me right 😃

Effective stacks are significant in these scenarios (deeper means you can limp some hands you probably should fold at 100bb as gg suggests). Another factor is whether there are three blinds behind and/or players with a relatively high squeeze frequency. Generally I'd say if you're limping some and raising some, it's important that you at least understand what your limping v raising range looks like so you can take advantage of your position postflop and not just get stuck playing your actual hand in the manner of a passive rec. I'm not sure to what extent multiway limping ranges in 100bb+ effective/high rake games have been solved.

If you never limp on the button with 3-4 limps in front of you, I have to think you're missing out on a shitload of value.

I will occasionally raise hands like Ace-baby suited and 77 and 54s because I will have a bigger pot if I hit and a well-disguised hand. Nobody will put me on 77 if I raise preflop and the flop comes J72. People also check to the raiser, so I can see a fourth card for free if I miss my set or have a strong three-card draw I'd like to backdoor.

I won't do it if I know either of the blinds are capable of squeezing. I'd much rather limp along for $2, have the blind raise to $25 and see if there's enough callers to justify continuing rather than raise to $15 and have the blind squeeze everyone out with a raise to $90.

Good advice Marchron!
Not too many I play with would do the $90 squeeze play but I take note of those that do. 3 or 4 players in the game with that as part of their toolbox and the price is going up. I see that occasionally.

With a squeeze and two calls is another question.

So, a hand that can flop strong but be disguised is worth a bloated pot. Otherwise, an overlimp can be reasonable.

Hey, anyone that likes the option of a FreeCard is a friend of mine.

The thread title had me expecting the question here to be what sort of range do we assign to someone who make a small pre-flop raise after multiple limps. But that doesn't seem to be the question.

Generally, when people limp, I'm not expecting them to fold unless the raise is large. So I'm not a fan of small raises over multiple limps in most scenarios. Exceptions might be made if we're hoping to induce light 3B's from aggro players left to act, or we suspect one or more limpers may be hoping to limp-3B.

If we're on the BTN with a marginal hand, I think it's fine to over-limp if or when the blinds aren't squeeze-happy. I want to disappoint anyone who was hoping to limp-3B, and don't really see enough value in raising pre with a marginal hand just for the sake of having the betting initiative going to the flop.

The risk in having the betting initiative is that action is often going to check to us, and we'll have to figure out if we should c-bet or check back, a decision made that much more difficult when we're in a multi-way pot. I'd argue we're often better off NOT having the initiative, if that leads to opponents playing more face-up on the flop, stabbing more and trapping less.

I think I mostly agree with RaiseAnnounced - raise bigger with a more polar range. I don't know if the result is playing the opposite of how most others play, but I'd think it leads to easier analysis and decision-making post-flop.

Lot of good advice in this thread and I’m always ready to learn.

My revised view - from your input
It still makes no sense to raise to $15 if everyone will call.

So, limp medium strength and raise bigger with a polarized range. May have to experiment with how much bigger to go.

I was annoyed by folding everyone and taking the blinds - but it makes more sense with a polarized range.

Thanks for your help

Also bear in mind that position, your hand, and your raise size aren't the only factors to consider.

If you play most of your range as a raise or fold from most positions, and rarely if ever limp in, the limpers will often notice. Very often, if you never limp and only ever come in for a raise, they'll think of you as the table maniac, and start making more loose calls, or looking for their opportunities to limp-3B, or trap, or whatever they think the appropriate adjustment is.

If you're just looking to raise with top of range, and then you raise to a large size, you're unlikely to get action when you want it, and you just end up taking down the blinds and dead money. This is why playing raise or fold with a polar range works.

You raise a speculative hand and get 3B, it's an easy fold. You raise AA and get 3B, somebody's feelings are getting hurt.