Too passive with QQ in 3BP?

Definitely 4betting pre. Your range is super wide because you're iso-ing from the button, which means his 3bet range is crazy wide, too. QQ mashes that lineup.

As played, I'd like to get one more bet in because I think he'll hero-call with TT-77 and maybe even AK if the price is right. He's probably also just calling AA and KK too, but I think a ~$100 bet has value. Sticking him all-in folds him out except for better hands.

Well played, assuming you checked behind on the river.

Solid players aren't 3-betting "crazy wide" from the blinds just because they see another solid player raising from the BTN.

I mean GTO SB vs. BTN is "crazy wide" ... but that's open fold to BTN who opens to 2.5bb, and SB 3bets to 12.5bb.

But even there, BTN responds by mostly calling QQ (maybe 20% 4bet) in SLC 100bb+200bb.
GTOwiz pure 4bets QQ at 100bb.
Worth noting that in GTO land SB has a bunch of suited Jx combos, only J8s 3bets less than half the time (even KJo 3bets about 20%).

I check back river unless V is a pretty big fish, also some value in knowing what he played this way. Even if you bet like $100 on the river what do you want him to do? Call AK? Call TT?
Also assume you are folding if V shoves?
Maybe some value in betting $25 or $50, but I'd be worried about some random spazz shoves then.

Would assume his range is mostly:

1. Hands that look like air now and are mostly going to x/f.
2. Hands that look good but feel x/c is better than bet. Maybe AJs is here that is losing. Maybe TT/99, but IMO they are more likely to check turn or bet less. Worse Jx?
3. Monsters that are being tricky, like JJ/66/55.

Worth noting that flop bet is pretty big, for J52 where he whiffs a lot. But live players love to go half pot (fwiw GTOwiz likes a lot of sizes including half pot).

Turn is then even more worrying as he sizes up but still making it not look too scary. Also we block both flush draws.

I don't think his 3b is "crazy wide" but even if it is why would you want to 4b? You're better off calling the 3b and keeping in his terrible hands. The only point to 4bing here would be is if he'll jam fairly wide and you can print money - would rather than just call and he's going to have a tough time playing OOP in a bloated pot.

Now shove river, he's calling hands with any showdown value.

Every draws missed, he's checking to check/call all showdown value. He's only folding missed draws.

I'd check back river against this type of villain. You can shove versus others who never x river with KK+ and tank call with 99-TT etc. Calling the 3b/not 4betting IP at 200bb ef seems standard.

Appreciate the responses everyone.

I did think about 4betting pre. If we were a bit shallower, I definitely would have. I agree my range iso-ing a fish from the BTN is very wide, but I'm not sure if my opponent's range is appropriately wide in response. I don't know very much about this player but I see players making flat calls in obvious 3bet spots all the time playing live. I also see them hero-fold to pre-flop 4bets. So I get worried that if I 4bet here, I only get action from better hands and maybe some AK.

Post-flop I think you may be right that the best way to get value here is to bet small. I didn't give that enough consideration in game, as I was mostly in jam or check mode. If you bet $100 on the river here and Villain jams, are you folding for $135 more?

Thanks for posting the GTOw ranges here. Gotta admit I haven't studied 200bb GTO ranges enough which is embarrassing for someone who is trying to win at live poker.

I think your summary of his range on the river is pretty accurate too. And I was definitely worried by his line, particularly on the turn. Would have been grim if he shoved the river.

Yeah all the draws missing definitely bodes well for a jam getting called here. I do think I could get hero-called in this spot, but in game I wasn't sure how much showdown value type hands Villain would have here that 3bet pre, bet big twice, and check. It also felt like the draws missing could cause Villain to trap river.

Sure all the draws missed but does he really get to the river with tens like this? I’m happy to check back and see his hand.

Not 4bing, gii this deep with queens is somewhere between dicey and punty.

The result of this hand was that I checked back the river. Villain showed TT and I won. He made a face when I showed my hand so I said "I guess I missed a bet" and he responded "Yeah I was calling. I didn't put you on Queens."

I'm glad to see that there seems to be a consensus that checking back the river here is good. I was actually kind of beating myself up about missing a potential thin value spot on the river here. Almost didn't post this thread because it felt like such a clear mistake at the time of the hand. But, thinking about it closer, I do think that it is right to check back here. An average $1/$2 Villain is not going to have much JX in this spot, so they will have a lot of hands that check/fold (maybe I can get a crying call from AK sometimes) and some hands that have trapped (JJ mainly). Obviously Villain showed up with a hand that I could have gotten value from, but even that hand is pretty unlikely (some players might not 3bet TT pre; most players would not take this post-flop line with TT).

I also do think if I am playing against a really bad player, or even just someone that I have more of a read on, it could be good to bet (or even jam) the river.

Anyway, appreciate the responses everyone. I was expecting to get told I punted in this hand, so the feedback was a pleasant surprise. Honestly though, I need someone to take me down a peg or two right now (have been on a years-long sunrun) so it wouldn't have been that bad.

The thing with checking back is when they see you checking back with qq. They are snapping your river shoves with any hand next time. Because you always check back qq you have 0 value range on river. When you do shove it's air only.
They can shove value range and check/call marginal range vs you.

Yeah, that is somewhat concerning. To be honest, I am not super concerned with being exploited in this manner at live $1/$2, especially since my player pool is very large. I've played over 700 hours of $1/$2 in this room and I don't think I've ever played with this opponent before.

I also know that I would have some value bets in this spot (boats, maybe 5Xdd, maybe some overpairs). And I don't have that much air either. I'm over-folding pre-flop (assuming my opponent has a very strong range until proven otherwise) and I am not floating the flop or turn super wide against big sizings. I have some missed flush draws, but they are mostly Ace-high flush draws that I would be checking back a lot. I would be forced to bluff here with something like KQhh, but I don't think I have enough combos like that for me to be massively over-bluffing this spot.

But next time we’ll know he can show up much lighter than your average low stakes fish and we will jam our queens.

So I understand the idea that it's std. to just 4bet AA/KK preflop without thinking too much about it ... but we are allowed to call sometimes.
And there are other ways that QQ isn't top of range, we can have JJ/55/22 and it's not obvious that we need to raise at any point before the river. We might even have some A5s/65s if we know V is going to punt over 200bb postflop with TT (that might still be losing, but eh).

Also most people just don't remember hands this well ... much more likely V will genius call any bluff from anyone on this kind of runout in the future, for the same reason he'd punt call TT vs. QQ in this hand.

I mean this is a clear shove with QQ, for the simple reason that no one competent is ever playing KK+ like this and not jamming river themselves.

Grunch:

PRE - seems fine to flat the 3B from IP.

We could also 4B QQ, but it would suck to get jammed on.

My view is we need to decide how we're playing our big PP's in this spot, and play all of them the same way. If we're flatting with QQ on the BTN when the SB 3B's us, we should probably also flat with AA and KK, as well as AK.

FLOP - Calling seems pretty standard.

I might raise if he bet less than 1/3 pot. But it's a 3B pot and he's c-betting just under 1/2 pot, so calling seems the best play. Raising might be over-playing our hand.

TURN - Calling here also seems pretty standard.

V could have JJ, KK, or AA, and it wouldn't really make sense for us to raise on the 6d in a 3BP. The fact that there are two flush draws on board might lead me to raise a different QQ combo for protection, but having Qh and Qd makes it less likely V is going to show up with a flush draw on the river.

RIVER - Seems like a pretty standard bet for value here. I'd probably size down to get crying calls from 77-TT, JX, and some ace-high combos. I might go around 40% pot - large enough to not look too milky, like we have no bluffs, but small enough to look like we might just be trying to get a cheap bluff through.

I wouldn't spend too much mental energy trying to deduce a more defined range based on the read. If he seems competent, this is a spot where he's going to be slowing down and checking with a lot of hands we beat.

If he checks a hand better than QQ here, and we value-own ourselves when we bet and he check-calls, it's okay. We're betting small because we're betting a little thin. We flat called pre so we could take exactly this line post. His range is going to be more weighted towards hands we beat, not hands that beat us.

Grunch: I don't like a 4bet pre, and I like the way the hand was played. I'm fine checking back river. I don't think worse is calling and better definitely isn't folding.

Just saw results. Interesting. I was thinking AJ and TT are the only hands that "might" call a river bet/shove. Still not sure he would/should, though, especially w/ TT. Unless he has a read that you will buff, which doesn't seem to have happened.