The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched

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22 July 2008 at 04:53 AM
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Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

I play on Global which don't allow any kind of tracking software to analyze statistics so for the last 5 or 6 months i've been been recording my games so i could manually analyze them myself. I multi table up to 9 tables and play about 4 to 5k hands daily and yes more hands mean more bad beats, but i doesn't mean a higher percentage of bad beats.

I use a hold'em odds calculator and figure out what percent chance of winning i had in my all in situations, and the math is way off over a huge sample. 4k + hands a day for months.

Just yesterday after losing for about 3 hours strait i hit the record button and recorded another 1 hour 30 min of play time, about 1k hands. My average chance of winning my all in hands was 62% the actual times i won was 42%. That's 20 percent difference which is huge.

Yes 1k hands is nothing but it's about 6 months worth now of damn am i losing my mind lets start recording and see have i indeed lost my marbles or is this really happening and every time i do the math is off by about 20 percent

I have read many threads across many platforms about Global's rigged RNG and it is indeed Rigged.

The one post that best described Their RNG was the "DOOM" switch, that dude was dead on it protects the fish from losing to much to fast.

I don't always have losing sessions sometimes i crush the fish, a few days ago my hands held up at about the percent one would expect and i won the entire day.

I calculated my ROI and it was 32% over about 5k hands

Then sometime during the night the villan hit the "DOOM" switch and for the last few days i have had back to back times infinity runner runner bad beats and that's the majority of the type of bad beat is the runner runner after the flop type where you jam all in with your monster hand with a 90% plus chance of winning and you guessed it runner runner and it's over and over and over to the point where it is extremely obvious.

A legit response is where's the Data to back it up why don't you show us a sample " a recorder session" anything ?

As far as the Data well the site don't allow tracking software so the only other type proof you could produce would be in the form of hand histories or video evidence. Globals hand history i find difficult to navigate so i have been recording videos to go back and analyze.

I think maybe that people are hesitant to let others know their screen names in videos. Yes you can edit out screen names but in order to get even a very small sample of say 5k hands that's about 4 and a half hours worth of video that the person your trying to prove your case to would have to watch and to pause constantly to analyze all the math.

I don't know what i'm hoping to achieve here Global representatives are certainly not going to analyze hundreds of hours worth of videos.

I'm guessing they already know and that's why there is no poker tracking software allowed.

Only thing i could think of is that all the losers like me could band together and demand they allow poker tracking software

Poker tracking software would point out that something very fishy is going on.


by Gambler69

Hi, im new here. I have a question. How far off would the math have to be over say a couple hundred thousand hands for a RNG to be considered flawed ? i'll give an example of what i mean, say for instance in 200k hands you had AA vs AK suited all in 500 times and instead of winning those hands 87% of the time you only won 60% of them, would that be considered flawed ?I would th

Don't ask Slugant that question and expect an honest or knowledgeable answer. He has been exposed as the variance BSer with evidence directly from a university textbook. And he has been making that claim about variance for over 10 years. So when I say his endless stream of BS, it's because he has been caught spreading his BS. All you have to do is ask him if my statement is a lie. If he says it is a lie, I'll provide the link to prove it. Or you can just look through my posts which include images from the textbook.


guys you are boring riggies. I mean Johmir was just as average of a riggie who cant beat the games and makes up theories to feel better but at least he brought some spreadhseets.

you guys are just crying like little girls.

Waddy there are disreputable poker rooms some of them have stolen player money non of them have done it with fake rngs.

you know why? because its a terrible idea. If you want to steal money you just confiscate the bank roll for dodgy reasons.

there is so much shady things going on in online poker like bots, rta and ghosting.
But thats way to sophisticated. Instead you complain about the ace hitting too often on the river beauce you cant accept you are loosing because of your lack of skill.

this is what connects all you riggies you fail and just cant accept it so you make up weird theories to bolster your ego.

Gambler the main reason why people dont wan to provide video or other evidence is that when ever they do they get exposed.

Most riggies deep down know they are the reason they lose but are just blowing of steam every now and then. I am sure you as most riggies have lucid moments in between your nonsensical rants.

Amazing i forgot what your initial claim was but am i right to assume that you said you ran under ev for a million hands but havent showed the data? something like that?


by Slugant

Oh so its hypothetical?? OK let me rebuttle that by the hypothetical situation that someone works hard on online poker, is naturally talented at makes a living out of it.. There, problem solved. And for many of us, its not even hypothetical, its reality.Because of people like you. 90% of poker players are losing money, its a tough environment. People cannot accept that they are

I started off my posts as stating I was a small stake winner of around £30k, a modest profit of over 23yrs experience. So your perceived grudge as I’m a loser is incorrect.

Then you tore into my 45% on here don’t fully trust online poker …. That is 35% absolute don’t, with 10% undecided. That’s 45% not FULLY trusting. Maybe the maths thing is why you don’t see what most do!

You suggest focusing on the 55%, not the 45%. I can’t think of any other industry that would do that! Owning a business and almost half don’t believe in your practices is a good thing, cos I’m gonna focus on the good half!???

The fact that backers like you think you can work on your game to stop bizarre players putting you all in on the flop with bottom pair, when you have the nuts with top set… to see them consistently hit some kind of perfect runners, is not possible. You can not make any improvements in your game for that.

Apparently that is players ‘getting better’ after Black Friday… I’ve played through all of it, believe me the players are just as bad as they ever were. Otherwise the rig claim would not got much much stronger over the years? Players are aggrieved over the huge avalanche of runners, what part of that makes the calling station hitting these ‘better players’.

I notice you made no reference to the fact this industry has a bad reputation across all trust sites for its decks, has huge fines against it’s unethical practices… and like an accused guilty criminal just rely on the ‘prove it’ route.

You have no reference to why sites act like this, when they could do many things to clear their name, such as to offer to run our entire had database through their auditor.

If you could stick to answering this question on the sites reluctance to install confidence to their own market?

This would be good instead of the your rubbish at poker, you have no clue etc. Let’s just stick to what’s important…. Regulation and audits.


Poker sites are being audited, poker sites are regulated.
How do people not grasp that?
If you think a RNGcertificate doesnt mean anything or the regulators dont do anything, thats your opinion. But its not like pokersites can do whatever the **** they want.

If you claim players today are as bad now as before black friday, that says a lot about your understanding of the game.
The fact that you think 45% proves something, while 55% doesnt, isnt looking good for you either. But I have been playing profesionally for over 20+ years and let me tell you, in 2005 there were the same rantings about online poker being unfair. By exactly the same type of people as today. People who cant accept their own shortcomings and cant accept they are not a success in online poker so the fault must lie somewhere else.

To all the (new) riggies.
I notice its a trend to tell stories about "I should have hit 80% but only got 50%" but they never ever provide the actual evidence it happenend. No data, no screenshot. No sharing of the screenname because then we could check them. Johnmir told everyone he was a winner and then we checked his results... rut roh

How are you ever gonna do something or resolve something when all you provide is just words put together, everyone can do that, look: "Ive actually played 1 billion hands online and they all gone exactly as plannend, no outliers whatsoever"
WOOOWWW such a huge sample of fairness, poker must be trustworthy guys. Dont worry about the authenticity of my statement just because I didnt add any shred of evidence. I've said it, so it must be true!

If people really really believe the rng is rigged and they are basing that on their own data, show us. Not in words, but in data. You know that if you catch a pokersite out on having a rigged rng you would be the first one. You would be a fixture in online poker. You would have proven so many people wrong. This has got to be motivation enough to collect all the data you can and provide it. Good luck

And @ amazing. I know you dont understand variance or anything about poker. You are one of the worst derailers ITT and have never provided any evidence whatsoever. But wtf do you even mean with me "being caught with my variance claims". I am not claiming the earth is flat and Stephen Hawking proved me wrong. I claim variance is a bigger part of poker than most people can understand.
For those actually interested in how huge variance can be and how big samples do really really matter check out the variance calculator by primedope or take a lil looksy at this:


You see that over 500k hands (which is a lot considering most riggies provide 5k hand or often <1k hand samples) its not even that unlikely that the player with the true winrate of 3bb/100 outperforms the players with the true winrate of 7bb/100.

Before just blatantly and with zero actual evidence saying the RNG must be rigged, think about that. Over half a million hands the player who is 4bb/100 the underdog can easily do better than his opponent. Thats how sick variance is. I know amazing wont understand this but I hope a few of you do.

And if you want to dispute the existence of variance or the existence of a rigged rng.
For the love of god, dont do it just in words. And certainly not with hypothetical stories or anecdotes.

SHOW US DATAAAA


by TheWaddy

I started off my posts as stating I was a small stake winner of around £30k, a modest profit of over 23yrs experience. So your perceived grudge as I’m a loser is incorrect.

I doubt it very much.

by TheWaddy

Then you tore into my 45% on here don’t fully trust online poker …. That is 35% absolute don’t, with 10% undecided. That’s 45% not FULLY trusting. Maybe the maths thing is why you don’t see what most do!

You claim undecided ones as riggies. Alright fair but lets not forget the huge amount of people that have voted yes as a joke and all the riggies that kept getting banned came back and voted again.

by TheWaddy

You suggest focusing on the 55%, not the 45%. I can’t think of any other industry that would do that! Owning a business and almost half don’t believe in your practices is a good thing, cos I’m gonna focus on the good half!???

There is certain businesses that will always have a large amount of people coming after them. There is nothing that can be done about it and even the casinos and pokerooms that for a while tried to communicate with the crazies on trustpilot and sites like that give up after a while. I have first hand knowledge in this.

by TheWaddy

The fact that backers like you think you can work on your game to stop bizarre players putting you all in on the flop with bottom pair, when you have the nuts with top set… to see them consistently hit some kind of perfect runners, is not possible. You can not make any improvements in your game for that.

I didnt know Slugant was a backer. Slugant I will accept backing or high stakes tennis matches and Omaha 8 or better.

The rest of what you wrote their is why you I doubt that you are a winer at all.

This is the mindest of a fish annd loosing player.

by TheWaddy

Apparently that is players ‘getting better’ after Black Friday… I’ve played through all of it, believe me the players are just as bad as they ever were. Otherwise the rig claim would not got much much stronger over the years? Players are aggrieved over the huge avalanche of runners, what part of that makes the calling station hitting these ‘better players’.

Here you essentially just double down on being a bad player and outclassed these days.

The rig claim hasnt gotten stronger. its that edges have become smaller and people who used to be winning layers arent anymore.

The reason you are losing is not that your opponents hit a runner runner any now and then its that you are much worse compared to the average player then you sued to be,

Based on how you write about poker you have neither interest nor capacity to become a good player. So I would suggest you get out and enjoy the 30k you claim you won although i very much doubt you are up lifetime.

by TheWaddy

I notice you made no reference to the fact this industry has a bad reputation across all trust sites for its decks, has huge fines against it’s unethical practices… and like an accused guilty criminal just rely on the ‘prove it’ route.

Well as mentioned before there will always be a loud minority complaining. Thats part of doing business. you see because poker and casino games are build around people who dont get it but think they do.

So in essence people like you. If there weren't people that think they are smart but aren't. if there weren't people who think they can beat the roulette wheel even if they cant or think way to high of their skill in poker the business would implode.

Some of those people will throw a tantrum after they loose. If you operate a retail casino you kick them out and let them back in when they brought more money. If you operate online you just ignore them for the most part.

In essence since there will be more losers then winners there will always be more dissatisfied customers than happy ones. its by design.

by TheWaddy

You have no reference to why sites act like this, when they could do many things to clear their name, such as to offer to run our entire had database through their auditor.If you could stick to answering this question on the sites reluctance to install confidence to their own market? This would be good instead of the your rubbish at poker, you have no clue etc. Let’s just stick

But mate that wouldn't change a damn thing. You would just claim that the data base was obviously fake or if it came from a temper proof server you would claim the regulator is on it.

There is no winning this as riggies have already made up their mind.

There used to be a site called real deal poker that created some outrageously complicated way of dealing cards online without the use of a classic rng.

It went broke in no time as riggies that always called for something like this played on it lost and claimed it was rigged and normal people just didnt care in the first place.

The funny part about all of this is that the only way to convince riggies that online poker wasnt rigged would be by rigging it.


I have no interest in getting in spats with people who like to go off topic and get personal.

You can suggest Im a liar, you havent made a profit, Im useless at poker etc tv …. I thought you guys were into ‘conclusive evidence’?

Could you offer an explanation to why people who back online decks get so aggressive towards people who like them, share a passion for poker and just want to play from the comfort of their own home and feel like a real game …But instead aggressively back sites that;

1. Have a proven track record of being fined millions for malpractice towards clients that affects both believers and non believers

2. Have had to had regulation put in place to stop them taking everything certain individuals own, otherwise they would

Even if I did believe online poker was random, I would never back these people over fellow enthusiasts. They don’t care about you OR me.

The point is online poker needs to be regulated in the manner it deserves. To have banners on sites that The Gambling Commission authorises and regulates is a disgrace. New players will read that to mean including the gameplay.

They know nothing about the gameplay/decks. Ring/email them, I have. They, in their own words do not have the resources and treat poker as a game of chance, like slots or all the other percentage payout games.

As long as this is the case the argument will carry on because at the very least, this level of regulation will always be open to abuse.

Either you believe that despite them being fined for just about everything you can name against your fellow player, they would never do something with the decks.. or you don’t.

Im afraid even if you found the most conclusive proof…. There is no-one qualified to decipher that information at The Gambling Commission and there sure ain’t anyone at a poker site thats going to look at it!

Proper regulation by people who understand poker odds, why cant we all want that?


At first i thought waddy was serious but i guess he is just another troll
If not, he is really way down the scale.
And also has never come up with data, which is a shame, because he 100% knows the rng is rigged. Since black friday of course. Surprised to see he is fanatic about this but refuses to show any evidence he has.

Also, in many countries poker is regulated. Maybe not in yours, I dont know.
But do the people there understand variance, gto, gameplay whatever you wanna call it. Of course not. They are bureaucrats. What do you expect of them.
Have you ever talked so a customer service rep from a pokersite.. they rarely know whats going on.
Customer service is generally terrible on a pokersite imo, which is maybe also why people on trustpilot arent happy with it. But whatever happens you (and a few others) will ALWAYS make the leap to "that must mean the rng is rigged".
Well again, if you really have a passion for poker and want to save it. Do some digging. Collect data and evidence, do some extensive research and come back when you have an open and shut case.

And btw, I am not backer and I am not backed myself.
I would like to back donjonnie in his tennis career if ony the ATP didnt rig the tennis balls so they benefit the weak players like Sinner & Alcaraz.

EDIT: THIS THREAD IS NOT MEANT TO DISCUSS IF POKERSITES ARE EVIL, CARE ABOUT MONEY TOO MUCH OR HOW MUCH PEOPLE AT THE GAMBLING COMMISSIONS KNOW ABOUT POKER
ITS ABOUT IF THE RNG IS RIGGED OR NOT. SO LETS KEEP IT DIRECTED AT THIS. AND PROVIDE DATA WHEN MAKING WILD STATEMENT FOR **** SAKE.


Ahhh you are just here for the conflict and have no interest to discuss a way to solve the problems.

You would be so disappointed if regulation was handed over to someone who knew something about poker!


Where is the conflict in me asking for actual data?
You seem conflicted because once again its all anecdotal without even 1% of actual evidence or data. Yet, the smoking gun isnt in a story about running bad, its in the evidence.

When you share your "experience" with regulators, do you tell them the same stuff? They cant contact the website with "hey, a guy told me he runs really really bad, like impossible bad, please fix the rng"
I hope you send them actual data because you want to resolve this "issue".
Or do you want them to just believe your story without any facts either? Good luck with that.
If you are sending them actual data, why not post it here? You havent done that so far.

Also, what do you exactly think a gambling auditor does?
You know its not their job to analyse your last 14 year of hands right?

Gambling commissions are often branches of the government. They are a politcian, bureaucrat or public servants. They are not Linus or Galfond.
There are impartial companies checking the RNG, and they dont look at a specific person last years sample because that would we way too low. They are checking 100m+ hands and never ever have they found a failed RNG. Who would you see as a "proper auditor who knows something about poker". I am a 20+ years pro, so would I be qualified? In fact, the stable winners (not just pre black-friday) are confident in a fair RNG because they understand numbers. If a poker pro (who must know something about poker) checks the RNG and its clear, would you say OK it must be fair then?

You have no interest in discussion. You've already made your mind up. You think you know it all but are failing at poker. So it must be rigged right? You should look up the Dunning-Kruger effect because you are a perfect example.

If you do have an interest in discussion, dont come up with any more anecdotes about bad beats. Show us the raw data.


by Slugant

Poker sites are being audited, poker sites are regulated.How do people not grasp that?If you think a RNGcertificate doesnt mean anything or the regulators dont do anything, thats your opinion. But its not like pokersites can do whatever the **** they want.If you claim players today are as bad now as before black friday, that says a lot about your understanding of the game.The f

That's why you had no clue how to calculate it. And that's a fact.


You know saying thats a fact after an absolute nonsense statement doesnt make it fact.

But I have to say. Once again, you've added some solid proof to your comprehensive analysis🙂🙂

If you want to disprove the numbers in the screenshot provided, go ahead. Do the calculations yourself and show us here whats wrong with it. It would be the first time you came in with an actual fact.
If you cant do that we will assume those numbers are correct and you are (like in any other case) an ignorant microstakes buffoon with zero comprehension of variance and its extent.


by Amazing3338

Don't ask Slugant that question and expect an honest or knowledgeable answer. He has been exposed as the variance BSer with evidence directly from a university textbook. And he has been making that claim about variance for over 10 years. So when I say his endless stream of BS, it's because he has been caught spreading his BS. All you have to do is ask him if my statement is a l

I’m beginning to feel this is true without proof OR ‘data’…..


If you want to trust someone who doesnt believe in variance be my guest

I will give amazing time to discredit the numbers I've shown. I know you are not a big fan of facts or data, which is why you have the position you have.
And thats good news because amazing will never be able to disprove that those numbers are correct.

But why trust facts or data when you can trust a never proven gut feeling that pokersites are teaming up against you huh


by Slugant

You know saying thats a fact after an absolute nonsense statement doesnt make it fact.But I have to say. Once again, you've added some solid proof to your comprehensive analysis🙂🙂If you want to disprove the numbers in the screenshot provided, go ahead. Do the calculations yourself and show us here whats wrong with it. It would be the first time you came in with an actual fact

Bud I'm not here to waste my time to prove something here to your satisfaction, especially when you haven't actually proven anything I have said to be wrong. Your delusional belief that you are so important that people have to prove something to your satisfaction is your delusional grandeur and that's not my problem.

The facts is I posted stats with huge deviations from the mean for 450 then 1200 all in hands and you argued the sample size was way too small, regardless of the huge deviation. Then I stated and then proved the sample size only effects the size of the standard deviations and, regardless of the sample size, multiple deviations from the mean is just as improbable with 1000 samples as it is with 1000000 samples. This is basic statistics, and I proved you are clearly clueless about. And those are indisputable facts.

And here is another fact. If I didn't prove you wrong and discredit what you claimed multiple times, you wouldn't be so offensive and desperate to discredit what I have said. The fact is you're just mad because I exposed you as the know nothing you truly are after pretending to be someone important on these forums for 15 years.


I am not the one mad at poker. You and a couple of other microstakes losers are. I love poker and can make a living of it. Something you can only dream of. And thats why you have this grudge against online poker, its shown you what a failure you are. But even though you cant beat poker and think its rigged you keep showing up on a poker forum. You know, if I couldnt beat backgammon and thought the game was fixed I wouldnt be active on the backgammon forums.

That you are "not here to prove something" is obviously clear. And that you cannot dispute the variance numbers Ive provided is also very clear because its just mathematics. And that is actually an indisputable fact. A term you like to throw around loosely and very incorrectly.

You dont have to prove **** to me personally. But you did come to the "poker is rigged debate" thread in case you havent noticed. So dont get your panties in a bunch when someone calls you on your nonsense. You have this idea in your head that you understand variance and others dont, while this is the other way around.
You cannot cherry pick hands out of a bunch and say "what are the odds of this happening". You need raw unedited data, why do riggies have some trouble understanding that. So if you are trying to prove something with flawed, edited or cherry-picked data I can comment on it. Not because it has to be "to my satisfaction", it just shouldnt be absolute garbage. The only ones liking it is other riggies. How come when actual quality player are losing over a while they dont whine about the rng, yet they just study, work hard and actually beat the game. But then again, why would a large group of professional poker players know more than a small group of barely playing microstakes players huh?

The intended holy grail of this thread is to prove a rigging of the RNG. So far, in 93.821 posts it hasnt been done yet. Its been claimed to have been done, but for some very strange reason nobody has succeeded. And this isnt just not been proven to "my satisfaction" but absolutely nothing has been proven in general. Only in the sick minds of a couple of begrudged microstakes losers😀


by Slugant

I am not the one mad at poker. You and a couple of other microstakes losers are. I love poker and can make a living of it. Something you can only dream of. And thats why you have this grudge against online poker, its shown you what a failure you are. But even though you cant beat poker and think its rigged you keep showing up on a poker forum. You know, if I couldnt beat backga

Bud I lost $200 and my posts are not the rage posts you constantly post. I'm not the one that's mad.

I already proved what I said with exerts from the stats textbook which you never address because you can't. And this is not about poker skill or experience, it's about math and probability, which I have proven you know nothing about. And that's why all your replies are a distraction, like here.


Well, only the riggies think its proven. But its not been proven to anyone else's satisfaction.
Nobody else has gotten on board with it and what else never happend:
- No site has been shut down or fined over the RNG
- GG increased rake and there was a HS community boycott. I've seen zero mass boycotts over the flawedness of the RNG.
- No commissions have addressed the RNG.
- No high stakes players have spoken out against the RNG.
- No major site has operated without having their rng checked and gotten their license. (remember when you thought they were using prng's you silly goose, quickly forgot that one huh)
Now normal people see this as enough comfort for the rng to be trusted. Because this is way more evidence than ever presented in case against a fair rng.
Paranoid people make a giant brainleap and say "the gambling commissions, rng checkers and hs players are in on it too". Its worth taking medicine for.

Look, if you and the Johnmirs of this world cant live with the fact that you are losing fair and square thats fine. And if for that fantasy to exist you need to make up an eloborate conspiracy of sites rigging their RNG to disadvantage a couple of microstakes grinder, thats cool. It could almost be a low-budget spy movie.

But dont expect reasonable people to get on board. And people who arent disagreeing with you arent just distracting to from the truth. We are not living in the matrix.
And just because you say "i already proved...and i have proven" does not mean it happened. Just like you are not suddenly amazing just because your name says so. In fact, Johnmir at least tries to prove something and puts hours in. You are just typing a couple of sentences and think "theres me done, Ive proven another theory". If only it was that easy.


Hope to finish all the missed messages later.

To be fair, I'm surprised that you discuss RNGs/PRNGs, since any company can run any software on it's own server.

by Amazing3338

I will acknowledge I have lost about $200 overall but considering I'm losing over 50% of my EV with my all-in equity about 51.5%, I think that's unbelievably good. I don't think anyone here would have done better.

Are you still playing there?
I doubt things will ever change to your GG account? Did you try some other room?

by Amazing3338

As far as the level of testing, RNGs are used for encryption as well as gambling sites but the level of testing for randomness for encryption is at a far higher level than for online gambling. For all intent RNGs for online gambling is self-regulated. And people who want to claim they use the best RNGs for online gambling are truly delusional.

I don’t think that RNG/PRNG or anything else is connected to our problem since rooms can test their RNG. But in real they simply use scripts to modify RNG’s outcomes.

I don’t really think anyone would ever modify RNG. It looks pretty obvious, that they just use internal algorithms for dealing. But, yes, when they need to pass certification – they show (!) a real, fair RNG code.

So, discussion of RNG itself is senseless, in my opinion, Amazing. They just don’t “use” the certified RNG for dealing.

by donjonnie

Is it like in Johnmirs case, the sites just try to hold you as the new mega crusher back?

Man, I’m not a “player” in this story. I’m an analyst. I do not care about my results. I took the stats and analyzed it. It’s all about numbers. More then that, I haven’t played any significant bets for ages. I mean, I don’t really care about my results that much. But I think I’m not alone of experienced guys, who didn’t manage to beat micros, rofl. People just keep silence, because they haven’t got statistical proofs.

I played micros to get statistical proofs of rigging.

by donjonnie

Maybe you arent playing enough tables. Johmir has found out in his research that you just have to play enough tables and the rng will stop treating you bad.

To be correct. It’s just my assumption, and I never mentioned this in my reports. I only mentioned this in discussions. Since I have got several examples when people who were losing to me everywhere, online and offline, but they managed to win on 4 tables more ROI, then I did on 1 table. Newcomer level players managed to win more ROI, while losing to me everywhere else. (It was on Partypoker and Pokerstars)

by donjonnie

Well, lets not get ahead of ourselves here Tennis is super mega rigged. I keep on losing game after game although I am a top 1% professional level player.

We need to work your serve out.
And preparation for the first strike right after you served. So that you will keep your advantage during the point.
Don’t worry, man, in tennis everything is under your control. Unlike in poker, where you never know, why your opponent has went all-in 3 times in a row, since you had to fold 3 times and his hand remained hidden.

by Lil Larusso

omg this scam site.. both tournaments i was crushing today (60 plus vpip in both).and in 2nd place with 10-11 left in both, 1st place open shoves aces i have KK both time and would have all chips or final table bubble and they have aces over my kings both times.

Yes, it’s classics, and it’s everywhere. I have already described this several times. I don’t even play nowadays, and the first time I got involved in this kind of situation that you describe –

by Johnmir

By the way, additionally to your comment -Look, I almost don't play nowadays. And the first time I get involved in the situation, where 2 of 4 players are "sitting out" - Devid and SideChic - are sitting out with small stacks. 3 places paid. I'm the first with a huge stack. Tommi boi - is the 2nd.Do you know why I push my hand? It looks totally irrational.Because I don't "think


The very fact that the supporters of the PlayStation action decks say ‘ no-one has been able or can prove it’, I think we all can agree on. It’s not possible to prove.

It’s a pity that you can’t see this is exactly why there is zero risk to sites maximising their profits. They know it can’t be proved under the current legislation.

But although they break the rules on everything regarding customer financial limits, advertising, encouraging gambling addicts to return to play, etc…. You think they wouldn’t do this, even though this insanely greedy industry could do.

That is some trust. That is extremely gullible.


by TheWaddy

The very fact that the supporters of the PlayStation action decks say ‘ no-one has been able or can prove it’, I think we all can agree on. It’s not possible to prove. It’s a pity that you can’t see this is exactly why there is zero risk to sites maximising their profits. They know it can’t be proved under the current legislation.But although they break the rules on everything

So you don't think that a company rigging the deck to maximise their profits has any risk at all?
Also do you think that there is hard factual evidence that a company has rigged the deck.. because surely if they were rigging it to such an extent they were profiting from it there would be mathematical/probability etc.. evidence?


by Johnmir

But in real they simply use scripts to modify RNG’s outcomes.
I don’t really think anyone would ever modify RNG

You are a big fan of contradicting yourself in the very next sentence huh

by Johnmir

They just don’t “use” the certified RNG for dealing.

Oh yea this is Johnmir sees pokersites, he told this before when confronted with rng certificates. He said that when the certification company walks in the building the pokersite flips the switch to non-rigged and when they leave they switch it back. His honest words. This is what how he thinks it works. The low-budget film just a little more sharknado.

by Johnmir

Man, I’m not a “player” in this story.

So why did you introduce yourself on every forum, on youtube and to the gaming commissions as a "professional level player". Its not a great look when you lie in your very first sentence.

by Johnmir

they managed to win on 4 tables more ROI, then I did on 1 table. Newcomer level players managed to win more ROI

Another quick contradiction. More tables means a kinder rng and that was the reason they win, you told this numerous times. So how do newcomers get more ROI since newcomers dont masstable.

by Johnmir

We need to work your serve out.

Thats like saying you need to work on your poker skills. What does it matter when its all rigged? Donjonnie is a professional level tennis player by his own admission but never won a match. The only outcome is that its rigged. Its unfathomable that he is not assessing his own level correctly.

by TheWaddy

I think we all can agree on. It’s not possible to prove.

I dont think we are all agreeing since Johnmir has said he proven it was rigged with 99.9999999999% certainty. He would like to think he has proven it. And you seemed to be on his side.
And of course a rigged deck can be proven, you just need the numbers. Which seems to be totally absent.

by TheWaddy

They know it can’t be proved under the current legislation.

Its not because of legislation that it cant be proven, that has nothing to with it. If you show raw data of a fixed algorithm thats proof. Whether a gaming commission does something about it is a different story. The evidence isnt there because people cant find it, no legislation is holding you or anyone back from doing the work and digging up the dirt.

by TheWaddy

But although they break the rules on everything regarding customer financial limits, advertising, encouraging gambling addicts to return to play, etc…. You think they wouldn’t do this, even though this insanely greedy industry could do.

You really seem grossed out by the poker industry. If I were appalled by music I wouldnt turn the radio on. Yet you keep doing exactly that. You also seem to think that rigging a RNG will increase long term profits when its clearly not the case. There will always be players who feel screwed over because they are upset they lost or ran bad. Now imagine there is a pokersite who can make every player feel like the RNG is fair, that site would be huge! Fixing your rng would take that away. Pokersites dont need to rig their decks for players to pay rake, they just need as much volume as possible. And the players volume goes to the best and most trusted providers, just like in any other business.

Furthermore your reasoning is that of a very paranoid person.
Because they break the rules in advertising they surely must also rig the RNG and possibly lose their clientbase?? Is this really what you think?? Because its quity unhealthy. Just because something is immoral in 1 thing they are likely immoral in everything?

If you were ever caught shoplifting and the police tells you "we are going to book you for murder, because someone who steals could possibly do a killing spree as well" you would respond with "of course, trusting a shoplifter not to kill would be extremely gullible"?

Every business is trying to make a dollar, it doesnt mean they all rig their products.
Its truly a very paranoid way of looking at the world.
You can call me gullible for that but I've been a pro for 20 years and have played 15m+ hands with nothing out of the complete ordinary so I have every reason to believe im playing a fair game. Players a lot worse than me are losing and players a lot better than me are crushing high stakes. What I think is gullible is to conveniently believe the story of a few angry net losers over the story of thousands of actual professional players, only because the latter doesnt fit your wishes.

by Burkeman

So you don't think that a company rigging the deck to maximise their profits has any risk at all?
Also do you think that there is hard factual evidence that a company has rigged the deck.. because surely if they were rigging it to such an extent they were profiting from it there would be mathematical/probability etc.. evidence?

The word factual is where you lost him probably.
There has never been in the history of online poker a pokersite been caught with a rigged deck (countless ways of other cheating though, which is a seperate issue).
Rigging a deck could be to get losing players staying in longer but then the regs wouldnt make enough and switch sites, move down stakes or simply get another job so that we hugely counter-productive since regs are responsible for an enormous part of the rake paid (profit for the sites). Keeping a fish alive a little bit longer would mean only slightly more rake earned because they play a very very little volume compard to the regulars.
So rigging a deck to maximize profits would therefore mean to earn more rake which means more big hands vs other big sites.
For which you dont need to see preflop folded cards, like Johnmir claims, because these big hands will go to showdown whereas preflop folded cards dont even pay rake.

For this you can easily download tens of millions of hands and found out that a site has gotten way more big hand vs big hand scenarios then there is to be expected. This would be strong evidence. This also has never been found. And in fact, I really doubt these riggies have ever even tried to attain something like this. A gut feeling and wishful thinking always trumps actual evidence.


JFC that was a tough read, I think I understand why you are called tiltboy:p

You are playing 10nl with a balance of $30 and win a bad beat jackpot of $1152 and what do you choose to do... Whine about a bad beat...
Which wasnt even a bad beat btw. You got it preflop JJ vs QQ and the board ran out crazy. It would have been a bad beat for your opponent if you won the hand. Its also the only hand we get to see unfortunately. That you lose playing blackjack, baccarat & roulette isnt really a strong case. The games are by nature -EV.

And if that particular hand was rigged by the software it would be quite silly. Surely if they can rig the runouts they rig it to give less BBJ's away. Why would they rig it to get more quads under quads and they have to pay the BBJ. Adjust it so BBJ never hits and keep the money would be a smarter rig😉

Some woman (but likely fake account i agree) has posted on Quora a story about ignition being rigged so she moved to bovada. In your mind this proves the RNG being rigged because "why else would this post exist" but it doesnt make any sense. It would sooner be someone who just tries to get customers van ignition to bovada.

Im willing to bet on it Tiltboy but not for $100, thats not even a buy-in to me.
Lets do at least 2k. You might need to ungratefully win another BBJ for this one.
The only problem is of course the way of proving.
You likely wont accept the proof that the pokersite or I can deliver even though its there.
You would claim you've proven it because of some bad beats and a quora post() which obviously I wont accept as proof.
I would accept as proof statistics of a significant sample of hands (all of them, so not cherry picking the bad beat or w/e) where it shows the runouts deviate from the expected in a way that cant be assigned to variance (because otherwise its just variance i.e. rungood runbad). I do wonder, what would you accept as proof that the RNG is not rigged?
For clarification: Im not talking colluders, rta'ers, bots or other forms of cheating that absolutely do exist and pokerrooms are generally act poorly on. We are solely talking about a rigged RNG.


Aw, man...why you whining about bad beats so much you run to get your camera then record one of the most ridiculous ones of all?

Hahaha omg dude you won money on your bad beat! Oh ****, did I? ****.

So...I got beat so bad they had to pay me 1200 for it? Lmao



That's natural!


THATS NATURAL!! Lmao stfu

Also, now that you see my WPTGOLD sn DM and we can play heads up as well. I'm also in Houston and will play heads up live if you want.

10000% online poker RNG is designed for bad beats. I lost those two hands as I was replying.

Crazy they always hit 2 pair or something crazy on the river huh?

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