How far do you push backdoors?
How far do you push backdoors?

How far do you push backdoors?

I posted a hand earlier where I wasn't concerned about the outcome, but instead I was curious about what the forum felt about the preflop action. This is something a little similar.

2/5 game, I've got $800 behind.

I'm dealt Kd9d in the LJ and the action folds to me. I open it up with $25. BTN and BB both call. The pot is $77 and they each have around $400 behind.

Flop comes 9c Qs Jd so I have a gutter to the straight and a backdoor flush draw. I c-bet half-pot for $35. BTN raises to $100 and BB folds. This is where I would like to know what everyone else would do. Does the 2.5X cause you to fold? Do you call it with the amount of equity you have? Is anyone thinking to fire back because the raise is only 2.5X and his range is pretty wide?

07 July 2025 at 06:44 AM
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11 Replies



Button has the bb to act behind on a wet board, I’m terrified here. Would hate to be in this spot and would probably avoid it by checking the flop and making the easy x/c. As played I like calling the turn and chasing, folding on a blank to more aggression


Why bet a board multiway that hits their ranges

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Backdoor draws are worth 1-2 extra outs. Not enough to influence your decision.


To pile onto to everyone else's great points, why is H opening K9s from the LJ? Fold that pretty, but usually RIO-laden hand.

I take it no reads on BU? I don't know whether the small sizing is due to V wanting calls + much more $ in pot, V trying some weak raise bluff, or just incompetent sizing. In my area, this is a "please call me!" size, used by KT/T8. Others, it's an aggro way to play top two, or even something like JT. You block most of the hands I could see playing it this way---KT/99---but V can still have them.

If it is just top 2, you're a ~2-1 dog right now. Ldo, if the straight is there, H has big problems. I need a better read on BU to continue.


K9 might be my least favorite hand of all time. Would almost rather open K6s here.

Personally, I would always check this flop and would proceed with caution in a spot where both opponents can have lots of nutted hands. As played, I would rather turn K9dd into a b3b bluff than a bc. Even then, this is a spot where opponents will do weird things with JT and QT and your hand is doing poorly against both of those, so I would likely just fold.


by venice10 m

Backdoor draws are worth 1-2 extra outs. Not enough to influence your decision.

It's a useful tiebreaker, though, if call or fold is a close decision.

It also allows you to potentially make moves on turns when your backdoor draw gets halfway there. A call-flop-raise-turn line looks devastating to someone with one pair, but they don't know that you might have picked up a bunch of equity.

All of that is a bad idea in this hand, though. I'm probably not calling here given that we're likely behind, our only current draw is an obvious one-liner, and the best hand we can make is like a 20-1 shot.


Gutshot backdoor flush is a mandatory check raise imo but when checked to you almost always see solvers prefer to protect their "gutshot equity" and check back. When you hit a T on the particular board you mentioned it's pretty obvious unfortunately but often times you hit and it's an extremely disguised nutted hand and yeah an obvious fold vs strong aggression hence you see a lot of check to protect. I've started to include a lot of gutshots in my check back range and I do feel it's positively impacted my win rate


Also my usual note to ignore the nits telling you to fold K9s pre lol!!!


by B00mShackalaka m

Also my usual note to ignore the nits telling you to fold K9s pre lol!!!

Yeah raise pre is fine, but bet flop is not.

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As a general rule yes cbetting (or check-raising etc) a backdoor flush draw is often good particularly with a gutshot on top. I just don't like it here for reasons already stated:

1. It's a flop which can smash field callers' ranges
2. You're multiway and stuck in the middle
3. If you hit the straight it'll be on QJT as the preflop raiser - your AK alone is pretty obvious - would take a brave bluffcatch which would probably be a chop half the time
4. You've hit a pair and may have a smidgen of showdown value

The button raise is very strong and BB is still left to act - and could have a strong hand themselves so by calling we're not even guaranteed to see a turn card. Stacks are shallow. I would fold now


I appreciate all of the responses and I definitely have some takeaways here.

I will say that K9 suited very much falls into an opening hand chart for a 9-ring game. In fact, it's supposed to open in UTG+2 50% of the time, so I feel good about opening the hand up with it.

Unless a board is paired or it goes more than 3 ways to a flop, I generally like to do C-bet of between 40-50% pot which often gets me folds when the other hands miss. Having said that, I've been experimenting with Mark Goone's exploitative approach on playing out of position and I have to say it is much more effective than I thought. He basically advocates that you should always check back your full range on the flop when out of position regardless of what you have. Had I approached it that way there would not have been a C-bet and this hand may have turned out very differently.

I ultimately did fold to the raise since I did not feel as though there was enough equity to continue. Since I probably was not realizing my full equity until the river, I would have been dealing with some heavy reverse implied odds unless I hit the gutter on the turn. The bottom line is that the C-bet was a questionable move. I should have given the players other players an opportunity to stab at the hand and then worked it from there.

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