How do you guys deal with the physical cash management of higher stakes live?
Recently started getting into mid and higher stakes poker. 2/5 (sometimes 2/5/10), 5/5/10, 5/10/25 etc. At 2/5 I could just barely justify going in and out of the casino with just the cash in my pocket but at 5/10 and above that's no longer realistic. 5/10/25 I'm walking in with $5k or more and had multiple times leaving with $10k+ without even sun-running. I can imagine a situation in the near future where I'm leaving the casino at 2am in big city with $20k+ in my pocket....not ideal. I saw from Limon post a long time ago that casinos offer a "player bank"? What is that and how to set it up? And question for users here:
1. What would you do to manage high stakes cash at your local casino where you're a reg? The player bank option? I also see people chipping up to like $5k+ chips and then just keeping them on their person when they "cash out" at the night but I'd be kind of paranoid of the chips getting changed out or somehow invalidated or still getting robbed by someone who knew what it was worth.
2. Same as above but how would you manage it when you travel to Vegas? just play lower stakes or still set up a player bank even where you aren't a reg? Honestly in vegas I'd feel more comfortable because a lot of degenerate gamblers walk around with that kind of cash on them and security is better.
Not sure where to post this so posting here and live cash game forums.
22 Replies
Most poker rooms have boxes but they can be hard to get unless you grease the floor. Also, they aren’t always safe. There have been cases of getting the contents of their boxes stolen.
I'm pretty sure you can have the cashier pay you by check instead of in cash if you want to remove money from the casino. Or there are probably ways to have it put directly into your bank account.
Unfortunately, I usually carry cash because where I play at, they won't accommodate us to store the money.
There's a lot of people there with cash, there are security cameras, so hopefully that diminishes my risk by a lot.
1k chips and 500 chips and some blacks are ok for me. I don't like carrying 5 K's. I lost one before....Unfortunately.
Most poker rooms have boxes but they can be hard to get unless you grease the floor. Also, they aren’t always safe. There have been cases of getting the contents of their boxes stolen.
If you have a lot of money in a box, make sure to check it more often than once a year. If you only play in Las Vegas during the WSOP, don't leave money in there at the end.
I at one time had a box at the Taj Majal in Atlantic City. I had nowhere like the kind of money mentioned in the article, as I was not playing very high stakes games, but I often took a public bus back and forth from my home in another city, and I didn't want the risk of carrying more than a few thousand on the bus. To access my box, a cashier had to ask me for the number, check my ID, use a master key to remove the box from the mini-vault, give the box to me, which I had to open with my key (right there, I could not move away from the cashier area with the box).
My understanding was that my key was the only one which could open the box, and it should not have been able to be opened by any casino employee. To get the box I had to give a $100 deposit, and if I lost the key, they would have had to drill open the box, making the lock (or maybe the entire box) unusable, in which case they would keep my deposit. Even if I had made a copy of my key (which I believe had an engraving to not duplicate) and then ended my usage of the box, it should have been nearly impossible for me to hold that box in my hand again, as it would be registered to someone else, and the lock probably switched to a different number.
Anyway, all this goes to say that in the various ways I could lose my bankroll or have it stolen, someone else opening my box was the absolute least of my worries. It's a much bigger risk to be seen making a large cashout and then driving home with the cash (or even large chips). There have been many instances of poker players having their car followed and then being robbed. Since this usually happens at their home, now the criminal even has your address, which would be a nightmare.
That said, it may be even safer to have money in a player bank account, which some places have, especially card rooms in California. I have never had one of those but know people who have. They basically function as a regular account at a bank (except you don't earn interest). The article above mentions something called "front money deposits". I don't know if that works the same way or not, but it sounds similar.
If a player bank isn't an option, chips are your best solution. $10k in $500 or $1k chips is more discrete than that amount of cash in the pocket.
And just be super aware of your surroundings when leaving, especially late at night when not busy. Sometimes I do a double back or go out a side door so it is obvious if someone is following me.
Also, don't bring extra attention to yourself when winning or cashing out big.
Right now is a good reminder...if you use a player bank, iow where you give cash to the cage and they record and give you a receipt. When you come back you can withdraw from your "account" with the casino.
The good reminder is normally, these banks, "account", ledgers, whatever you call them, are NOT your money until in your hands. If a casino goes BK, you can lose that money. Technically you are then just an unsecured creditor.
Now at a major, you might be ok. And a few run these accounts through a FDIC bank but I can't recall the name of the 3rd party company facilitating this.
With Maverick going BK, it is a good time to remind folks those front money accounts are NOT insured. Now if you have money in player box it can get more complicated. Cash is yours ofc but chips, I am not sure. If the casino is BK are the chips worthless? Are they a secured creditor? Are you an unsecured creditor?
Not sure and never researched it.
Maverick Gaming, the company Person (sp) runs filed BK and closed 4 Wash casinos.
When I played 20/40 LHE regularly at Foxwoods and the Borgota between 2006 and 2012 I had a safety deposit box in both places. I kept roughly $10,000 to $30,000 in each box. I did it because I didn't want to be constantly carrying large amounts of cash around. Or traveling with it.
Having read about what happened at the Bellagio I now would have mixed feelings about using the safety deposit boxes. I know that Foxwoods changed their cage location for poker so I don't know whether or not they still have safety deposit boxes. But I did trust them. They had a system where you were in a private room whose door could be locked and nobody from outside could see you getting your box (which was visible behind the cashier). The Borgota was similar but didn't have a separate room.
Oddly when you stay at Silver Sevens in Las Vegas they don't have room safes so you have to get a safety deposit box at the cage. When you access the box everyone in the room can see you taking money out or putting money in... But it is better than not having a room safe...
The other thing to note is that when I win significant payouts in tournaments I ask for a check and all casinos will give it to me. If I was playing in a big cash game and won a significant amount of money and didn't have a security box I would likely ask for a check so I wouldn't be carrying a lot of cash.
At the WSOP you can also have them transfer the winnings into your player account where you can pay for other tournaments at later dates. I am guessing you also can transfer it to an Edge Boost (debit card) account for free via Pay Pal but what I don't know is if Edge Boost would charge any fee to then transfer it into a bank account. You could in theory keep it in the Edge Boost account and use it at a later date at WSOP events (and I'm guessing circuit events as well). At the current WSOP they didn't charge anything for use of any credit cards. However in past years they charged 3% per transaction. In the future they are likely to have a fee for credit card use but not for Edge Boost (prior to this year using Edge Boost had 0% fee and Edge Boost typically has a promotion table at the events).
If you have a lot of money in a box, make sure to check it more often than once a year. If you only play in Las Vegas during the WSOP, don't leave money in there at the end.I at one time had a box at the Taj Majal in Atlantic City. I had nowhere like the kind of money mentioned in the article, as I was not playing very high stakes games, but I often took a public bus back and
The lock on the box is probably pretty simple, easily picked by someone who knows what they're doing. All the thief needs is access to the master key, which many employees would have.
The lock on the box is probably pretty simple, easily picked by someone who knows what they're doing. All the thief needs is access to the master key, which many employees would have.
Don't you think that would ask be on camera?
It should be, but if you haven't accessed your box in 6 months they would have a very hard time tracking down when it was last accessed. They could have an accomplice pretend to be a player accessing their own box, or find a way to sneak the box into a room with no cameras.
I keep large amounts of cash under my mattress like Corey Eyering
I always punt it off at baccarat on my way out
I use a private safe deposit box company for years. They’re legit and super secure. 5 minutes from the strip. Open 7 days a week so it’s convenient for me. They are called The American Guardian I’m sure lots on players on here use them also
super secure
Google 24/7 Private Vaults robbery 2012 and 2014.
These private, untracable, uninsured vault companies are all secure until they're not. And it's pretty much always an inside job.
If you don't hold it, you don't own it. The Lodge had their money and the players money (in boxes?) confiscated. A bank can keep your money or not give you access to a safe deposit box. As shown above, private vaults can be seized.
Security will walk you out to your car or the cage can give you a check. I'm almost 70 years old and regularly walk about with $20-30K, just got to be aware of your surroundings and don't put yourself in a situation where there is risk. Keep your head on a swivel and don't walk around drunk or high.
If in doubt, get out.
It also helps to live in a state with constitutional carry. Practice with what you carry and rotate the ammo every six months.
I’m 6’7” and carry a gun
My thoughts:
1. Asking security to escort you to your car is always an option. Never forget this.
2. I have been in situations where leaving the casino with 30 - 50K happened. I never liked thise situations (and played a part why I never considered playing poker for a living). I have also played in situations where even winning just $1000 was noticeable. The best advice in any situation is to be aware of who and what is going on around you.
3. Whenever I have won an amount that I think is noticeable and I would hate losing, I think it is worth taking extra time leaving the casino. Go to the bathroom. Observe who hangs around. Go sit in the 24/7 deli and get a snack or sit at a bar and have a drink.
Make it hard for someone following you to continue to observe you while remaining anonymous.
I have literally thought someone was following me so I stopped at a casino bar, ordered a drink, watched them stop and order a drink.as well, then I immediately left and see if they immediately left. Very few people order drinks then abandon them. If they do, they are following you.
3. When driving home it is 100% worth it to take detours to see if someone is following you. Spend 5 minutes driving around the block or on a path that doesn't make sense. See who follows. Also know where the local police stations are. If you think you are being followed, drive to the police station and sit there honking your horn loudly. Better to have a strange conversation with a cop than be robbed.
4. Awareness is the key. Also it is 100% worth taking extra time to make it home. Paranoria for one trip is never bad.
