[Low] 1/3 NL--AKo UTG+1 facing 5!

Just call the 3bet preflop if you have individual reads he is wild. As a default you should be folding AK at 1/3 versus this preflop action though.

A good heuristic with 4betting is if you don’t know how to react to a 5bet jam then just call.

As played fold

Generally you need be more aware of a player's tendencies if choosing to 4bet this deep (470bb eff); it's definitely a profitable play with AK if you're confident that this villain will squeeze wider than standard, particularly in a scenario where you've opened 7x from EP and 3 have called. Keep in mind, though, you have a tight image and while villain is playing a wide preflop range, you don't seem to have info on his 3bet squeeze frequency; so, frustrating as it may seem, you should fold to his 3bet on this occasion, given you have players behind. If you were IP and confident of being heads-up, calling the 3bet at this stack depth is standard.

I am never ever getting it in preflop with AK for 400bb+ without a very strong read that they are a legit maniac. A good heuristic is to get wary with KK at 200bb+ effective. I fold QQ and AK to most 4bets, that doesn't mean I don't 4bet AK, but you get the idea.

One thing to consider is that you've said nothing about his 3bet range except that it contains AK, based on a small sample size. Again IME, I've encountered very few players that will shove this deep without exactly AA, but the absolute worst I think I've ever seen is AKo. My point is that I see a very rapid drop-off in frequency in preflop play from call -> raise -> 3bet -> 4bet etc. Like for example a maniac player might raise 50%, call 80% of 3bets but only 4bet AQ+/JJ+.

It's certainly possible your games play differently, this is just my experience of 2/3.

I suck at deepstack (which is why I purposely play short, which is something you may want to consider if you are struggling), so my two cents might not be too relevant here.

I would overlimp in.

Even though we've seen him show up with AK in spots like this, my guess is that is probably near the bottom of his range. Plus he just limp/reraised us (a guy he likely considers very tight who raised from UTG+1). This is heavily weighted towards AA/KK in this configuration (unless history has shown otherwise), so I would fold here. Is our reraise an attempt at getting KK to fold? Cuz in general I probably wouldn't attempt to do that. And facing the shove I would fold KK 100% of the time here (let alone AK) in my game for these stack sizes cuz this is always AA.

ETA: Also, nothing in your read says this guy is maniacal (which he'd have to be to get these stacks in light against us and our extremely strong looking line). It simply states he can be tricky loose aggressive, but mostly it just sounds like he likes limp/calling a lot of hands, and he once LRR'ed AK (hardly maniacal).

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG

I mean this is the classic live limp backraise with AA/KK - I know you noted he's "tricky/aggressive" but does he get wild with 4/5betting preflop? There's a big difference between those types of players - sounds like he'll call raises with two napkins but isn't crazy preflop. Think this is big spew on your part - at this point he has AA/KK, we have like 20% equity. Think you have to fold here after putting in like 100 bbs preflop - big mistake imo.

Applications is for the math people & it’s an awesome book, but it is hard to understand. I would suggest Alex Fitzgerald’s last couple of books as they are aimed at low stakes.

It sounds like villain doesn’t mind flipping for it all, but when you are probably behind & at best a flip, I think you’ve got to fold.

Sure, you could have called the 3Bet, maybe lost less or flopped great, but I think that all-in was coming. Not sure what you could have done.

I don’t think this is a bluff, but the takeaway is that a bluff works in a spot like this, because it makes no sense to call. You might run into a monster, but no one will think you’re bluffing.
It’s a classic making a bet they can’t call.

Finally, I don’t think you flip a coin for that kind of money. Getting bluffed just hurts less to me than losing a thousand dollars.

over limping here seems terrible both deep and short

personally i raise and flat the 3 bet but proceed with caution.

Pre: We have position on him and I would just call his 3bet and proceed with caution. As played I would fold. Luckily we did not cross the preflop threshold with our 4bet.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all these thoughts.

Freecard: thanks for the book recommendations. I picked up Improve Your Poker Now.

GG: at 1/3 where its frequently straddled--at least 60% of the time but depending on table makeup its sometimes 7-8 out of 9 hands per orbit--how short would you buy in? Outside of possibly making decisions like this one easier, what is the goal of buying short? I'm not too concerned about losing money (that said my largest one hand loss has only been $600, so no idea how dropping $1400 on a preflop screwup would have felt), I consider it tuition, and its common for the 1/3 games I have access to for at least half the table sitting on $1500 or more. Hence, I'd like to learn to play deep during this journey. Even if I were to buy in short, I'd hope to build that stack and wouldn't want to leave b/c I was uncomfortable playing deep. If that makes sense.

I'm reminded of how much simply lurking here helped me back in the day.

Thanks again all.

I don't think you should be buying short. Too much variance playing short and honestly it's just boring waiting for best hands when you play short. You don't want to become a nitreg.
You should get comfortable playing deep because other people make more mistakes on turn/river and that's when you make more money.

My 1/3 NL table also often features $6 straddles (they are allowed both UTG and on the Button). Although it sounds like your game plays much deeper than mine in general, as while our maximum BI is now $500 (as of post Covid) most players don't BI for that much and it is rare to have two $1K+ stacks clash (and I doubt I've ever seen a table where half the players have $1.5K).

I BI and keep my stack topped off to $200. I do this because (a) it puts me in my wheelhouse (I'm very comfortable at this stack size) and (b) everyone absolutely sucks at this stack size and is making horrendous mistakes (i.e. playing far too many hands from far too many positions for far too much money). These preflop mistakes actually don't really become mistakes hardly at all once stacks become very large and you don't have a great handle on deeper stack as your opponents might, and even medium sized stacks can be quite tricky as they are often in dicey SPR situations. Also, the next poster suggests that playing short is high variance; it's possible I don't understand exactly what "high variance" means, but no one here has posted a giraffe as variance free as mine (although you can definitely argue whether that has come at cost to my winrate).

Yes, the question of what to do when you become deeper is a question. The first thing I would say: don't worry too much about this, cuz if you're playing a shortish ~4 hour session you'll often (sadly enough) simply be on your shortstack most of the time anyways. But when you get deeper, there are options. One, don't ever sit directly OOP to a good deepstack. Two, consider transferring to a shallower/easier table. Three, consider cutting your session slightly shorter (i.e. if you are now deep in hour 4 of a planned 5 hour session, maybe going home now if table/room conditions ain't great ain't a bad idea). Finally, just do your best.

Having said all that, you've said you want to get better at deepstack during your journey, and that's fair enough. But I would recommend attempting to walk before you attempt to run.

Ggoodluck!G

I don't think buying in for under 100 BBs is a good idea for the simple reason that the rake (assuming it's a percentage with an absolute cap) will consume too much of the pot when you get all in.

Rake is certainly a concern at LLSNL. But I doubt too many posters here play in an environment worse than mine regarding this (10% to a maximum $9 + $1 BBJ drop + $1 high hand promo drop + typically a $1 tip on pots) and yet I do ~ok using a ~shortstacking method.

But yes, if you're a deepstack crusher then you'll likely be better off sitting deep with regards to outrunning rake. But if you suck / are struggling tremendously at deepstack, the rake will be the least of your worries.

GcluelessrakenoobG

My crude rule of thumb is that AK loves shoving but hates calling a shove. 4bet is good, 3bet can be light here with all the dead money and we don't want to go multiway OOP with no stack depth. But now fold.