Is Mizrachi now in the GOAT convo?

I'm sometimes Mr negative and like to dismiss alot of stuff in the poker world as luck

However in order to do what he did this year you have to be a special player imop.
He's established himself as one of the greats imop.

IF he really wants to become the GOAT though, he has to take on some other challenges.
He should beat down Phil Hellmuth in a heads up match or something like that.

Or challenge Phil Ivey.

He's definately better than Daniel lol. Daniel could never accomplish what grinder did this year.
Not in 1000 years

DN is a ****ing chud

Mizrachi has definitely been crushing. I just looked over his hendon mob and he's been on an absolute tear this year. It wasn't just those two tournaments, he had a lot of other deep runs too. He even managed to run deep and cash in two WSOP events in the same day, according to hendon. Probably busted day two of one tournament, late regged another and ran deep in that one too.

GOAT, I don't know? In my mind no one can really live up to the legend of Stu Ungar.

But Mizrachi has had an impressive run.

With his 4th PPC and the Main Event win he is certainly one of the most accomplished live MTT players of all time and was worthy of his Hall of Fame induction BEFORE this year, but I wouldn't classify that as GOAT status.

Ivey is the GOAT and don't think it's really possible for anyone to take that status from him, the landscape both live and online has changed too much, you simply can't play as far above the rim as he did years ago. Maybe if Trueteller came back and won like 6+ bracelets in 3 years he could be in the discussion, but other than that I don't think anyone else is close.

Ill be the only one on the planet to think this but I think Ivey is overrated in tournies. Won a bunch of non NL tournies when everyone sucked at those games. Folded a winning hand on the biggest stage of poker which is like Jordan missing a breakaway layup in the finals or Tiger missing a 1 footer at the Masters. Hes done next to nothing in the modern era.

A PPC bracelet is worth way more then a normal one. I have Grinder as #2 on wsop goat list even before the ME win and thats only because Helmuth has such a giant lead.

I have to agree that he hasn't done much in the modern era.

But imop (which counts alot on poker) the first 10 years of televised poker, Ivey was
on another level. Not to mention he's done pretty well with bracelets, and he was a regular
at the biggest games with Doyle and Chip.

The first 10 years of televised poker though, Ivey was the best by far. He really played all worldly.
Like I don't think I saw a big mistake from him in 10 years of poker. Everyone else, Phil H, Daniel,
and pretty much everyone else had big mistakes. But I can't recall 1 from Phil Ivey. Not to mention
zero mistakes while making some sick plays, probably some of the greatest plays in poker history.
He outplayed all the other pro's on high stakes poker, poker after dark. the big cash game from Australia.

I'm not even a fan. But Ivey is in the GOAT conversation, even though he hasn't been as impressive lately.

Ivey cashed for $1.5M at the WSOP this year with 4 top 10 finishes.

He won the $10k 2-7 TD last year and is T-2nd all-time for most Triton wins (part of a large group lagging way behind Koon).

He is 17th on the 2025 money list, right between Ike and Chidwick.

https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/ranking...

Tough crowd in here if this isn't impressive. Ivey doesn't play a huge slate of tournaments, but still seems very competitive at the top level.

As for the question, you can't be the poker "GOAT" if you aren't beating high stakes cash over a big sample.

Unfortunately, cash is very opaque. We don't know who is winning or how much. All we get is hearsay.

Based on reputation, the list of candidates would seem to be Chip, Doyle, and Ivey from the 80s-00s. Maybe Rast and Jungle from the 2010s-now?

I know zero about Grinder's cash game results. That would be a big variable in a GOAT conversation.

If the conversation is just WSOP GOAT then I think he has a clearer case, with the 2x FT in the Main and the 4x PPC wins. It's legendary stuff for sure.

I think Ivey just isn't that ambitious about being the goat.

You know someone is good when cashing for $22.9M (81 cashes) in the past 5 years counts as "doing next to nothing". His biggest score also only contributed 8% to his total (=low luck factor).

In the same time, Mizrachi cashed for $11.9M (39 cashes), 84% of which came from one score (=high luck factor).

Helmuth: $7.4M (96 cashes). Biggest score contributed 11%.

Negreanu: $15.4M (228 cashes). Biggest score contributed 21%.

************

Remove Mizrachi's two biggest scores and he's only scored for $581K in the past 5 years.
Remove Ivey's two biggest scores and he's still scored $19.6M.

Grinder might have had the greatest summer in WSOP history but I don’t think it makes him the GOAT.

Greatest sun runner of all time? Yes

Nothing like using facts to disprove someone's feelings. Love it.

Cashes don't mean that much when we don't know buyins.

In the MOTS (most overrated tournament sunrunner) convo yes, definitely.

Greatest Mots of all time.

Never understood the obsession with GOAT debates in anything much less poker.

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Proof that Mizrachi, Negreanu, Hellmuth,...

May be reasonable to consider him as among the best live MTT players, particularly in mixed games. The PPC wins are just undeniable testaments to his skill at many games, poker instinct, and his ability to navigate MTTs.

The main event win is impressive. Without a doubt, it is a testament to his MTT skills. But if we're honest:

Luck bailed him out several times after being near-dead.
He sun ran the final table. Everything came in for him.

You need that kind of luck to win the ME, but there is part of me that thinks the ME win is not nearly as impressive as the PPC wins. He frankly doesn't seem that good at NLHE compared to the top players and with a sliver of less luck in any number of spots, we wouldn't be discussing his ME or GOAT status. Should GOAT status be dependent on a single river card?

He’s won the PPC 4 times now. Seems a bit silly to chalk that up to luck.

And that's where the argument might begin, with the suggestion that Mizrachi is arguably the greatest mix game tournament player of all time. Ivey would certainly belong in that conversation, too, given all his WSOP bracelet wins in non-NLHE events.

1) I dont care about Triton since a lot of players arent willing to go all the way over there. The fields are way easier, its like bragging about LIV tour wins vs the PGA.

2) People always forget what goat means. I didnt say he sucked I said hes overrated. Most people think hes #1 or 2 where i think hes #3-5.

3) Ivey has zero NLHE bracelets. Last I checked that was the most popular game. Most of his wins are 2k buyin events barely anyone played because everyone was still figuring out holdem in the poker boom.

4) I value 4 PPC titles where the field is 80% crushers well above a bunch of random low buyin bracelets vs 80 year old stud players.

5) every crusher on the planet has said PPC is the hardest and most prestigious tourny to win. Ivey has played it most years if hes so good wheres he at?

6) what deuce said. Total cashes doesnt mean a lot when you got teams taking pieces of each other and passing around high roller money in circles. Not saying ivey is doing this but total cashes/cashed amount are very biased stats.

Let’s see how long it takes him to go busto before we start counting goats lol

The WSOP wanted to get some feel good story back after completely bungling the Kassouf fiasco, letting someone cheat at the final table last year, and destroying their broadcasting legacy by putting the WSOP behind a paywall.

But the guy had 4 big blinds with 24 players left and luckboxed an all-in with A6 vs A7. Then he won a flip KJ vs pocket 55 to give him a good stack. Won some flips. Fastforward, he got all in with AK vs pocket KK with a bunch of chips on the line in what was probably ICM suicide.

He has balls sure, but his run was incredibly lucky. It’s not like he made a bunch of sick bluffs and plays. He won his all ins in a donkament.

fair but he also didn't play wsop for a while and it's also not like he was out grinding wsop even when he's there. not much value is wsop events when you're playing nosebleeds.

Ah yes, the famously soft Triton series. 😃