shove fold from very beginning

Nah, just maniacs. Disregarding the fact that it is exploitable as heck, beginning of a tourney is one of those rarer spots where you have a large stack and therefore more postflop room and less variance, and wasting it on preemptive push-fold is not the best decision IMO. You can technically just latereg in the last available minute and go with a legitimate shortstack push fold from there.

There's a few guys on WSOP.com who are regularly 3b jamming 200bb at $100 buyin tournaments. It's great, I can make +EV calls with A9o and KQo and have like 58% against their range which is quite wide.

Picking up a free $10 in EV every so often against these guys is nice, and when they rebuy they stay on the same table so it often adds up to $30 or $40 in EV.

Are you not risking a hell of a lot against a yahoo? Even with AK against their QJ for example

My expected bbs at the end of the hand is 400*0.6 or 240bbs, for a gain for 40bb from a single hand.

If I lose I can rebuy, what's the risk exactly?

having to rebuy and pay twice or more for the tournament.

Yeah, but you have to think in terms of EV.

60% of the time I end up with twice a starting stack which with ICM is maybe worth like $195, and half the time I end up with no chips which is worth $0.

0.6*195 + 0.4*0 = $117, which is greater than the original $100 starting stack I had.

You make money in the long run by making lots of +EV decisions. If your bankroll can't handle busting out and having to rebuy then it just means you're playing too high stakes relative to your bankroll.

Oh no doubt it's great when it wins, as is everything in life, just saying is it really worth the risk?

A double starting can dwindle away as the tournament progresses. Not always the dogs bollocks by any means

You are correct to the extent that doubling your stack early does not double your expected winnings in a tournament in money terms. But to say that you shouldnÂ’t take the risk is absurd. There is a whole mathematical model (ICM) that deals with how increases or decreases in stack size affect your expected winnings in a tournament. That mode says that early on increases in chip EV correspond fairly closely to increases in money EV.

But in this case it might even be easier to see why you should take that risk even without the ICM. To win a poker tournament, you must first double your starting stack at some point. If you choose to fold this spot, what is the probability that you will do so? If you are unwilling to take +EV risks, your chances are much lower than the 58% or so edge you have when you call the jam.

ok thanks.

Just i'm not in favour of taking big risks early on with something like 99 v AK (me having the 9s)