Tribal Conflicts
I'd like to start a thread which emphasizes how current social conflict fits into tribal framing.
We are all born into tribal identities. That identity may be the national, religious, gender or the sports teams which the people in your community room for. We tend to belong to the same tribes that our parents belonged to. We are indoctrinated into a way of thinking in which people outside our tribes are the enemy. Part of the thread which holds our tribe together is fear of opposing tribes.
Example: If you are born into a national tribe like the USA, you tend to want your tribe to be the most powerful and dominant. You are taught to fear the potential of another tribe like China to potentially surpass the USA. If you belong to a certain religious tribe, you are likely taught that your tribe has the correct view of God and prophecy while other tribes have an incorrect view.
We have a seemingly infinite way of sorting ourselves into tribes. We all have different ideas about the ideal way to manage human affairs.
I have to acknowledge that a big personal stimulus for me which led to my initiating this thread has to do with my personal observations as someone who was born into the Jewish tribe. I grew up with the story of my tribe as being victims ..... Slavery in Egypt. Being conquered by Romans. Crusades. Pogroms. Holocaust. I grew up with the story that we were the "Chosen People". Unique among all the people in the world while comprising only 1/500th of the global population.
Now I see what Israel is doing in Gaza and it completely changes my orientation. The Jewish nation is now in the role of conqueror. If we were victims historically, then now we are in the villain role.
I see the conflict between the Libertarian tribe vs those like myself who want to remove the liberty to add unlimited pollutants to the shared environment.
I sense a conflict between science and religious beliefs.
I want to see a world with more inter-tribal cooperation. Finding the common ground while respecting differences. I want to understand the obstacles which stand in our way to cooperation and if those differences are negotiable.
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It is how we evolved, since humans, as individuals and in a natural setting, are quite weak. So we were drawn into groups, tribes, and fear being alone facing unknowns (what created the incentive for us to join a tribe, I guess).
See how many politicians, especially the populist ones, use the fear card. Fear of the chinese, fear of muslims, etc etc.
It is how we evolved, since humans, as individuals and in a natural setting, are quite weak. So we were drawn into groups, tribes, and fear being alone facing unknowns (what created the incentive for us to join a tribe, I guess).
See how many politicians, especially the populist ones, use the fear card. Fear of the chinese, fear of muslims, etc etc.
We are truly divided and conquered.
I want to see a world with more inter-tribal cooperation. Finding the common ground while respecting differences.
This happens all day every day, but I think you're just mad that your particular tribe doesn't have anyone who wants to team up, because you're a proper nut.
Edit: Example: Republicans and democrats are working together to try and make all the Epstein stuff go away because while they're in opposing political tribes, they belong to the collective tribe of politicians who do shady **** on the weekends that they'd rather not be made public.
Gays and historically anti-gay people are teaming up to try and push back against some of the more ludicrous letters in the alphabet mafia. They have different reasons for it, but the end goal is the same.
Lots of inter-tribal cooperation goes on. But the people who want to dismantle the modern economy to save a particular species of mosquito, or eliminate a few billion humans from the planet because we have too much impact on some "natural" system are not seen as people worth breaking bread with.
I'd like to start a thread which emphasizes how current social conflict fits into tribal framing. We are all born into tribal identities. That identity may be the national, religious, gender or the sports teams which the people in your community room for. We tend to belong to the same tribes that our parents belonged to. We are indoctrinated into a way of thinking in which peop
I think it's just another example in showing just how tribal and simplistic human beings really are.
It's like the NFL, your team can move and swap players with all of the opposing side's team and people will fanatically root for them and flip over cars if they lose. They don't even know what they are rooting for anymore. The just need something to root for.
But the people who want to dismantle the modern economy to save a particular species of mosquito, or eliminate a few billion humans from the planet because we have too much impact on some "natural" system are not seen as people worth breaking bread with.
I think you've got me all wrong .... I want to dismantle the modern economy in order NOT to eliminate a few billion humans from the planet.
I don't have a problem with the number of people as much as I have a problem with the per capita environmental footprint. We can support 8 billion people if we reduce the unnecessary consumption.
I think it is wrong to call it tribal. For that to be a useful term, you would have to show that violence and conflict of this type is intrinsic to tribes and human nature as it relates to tribes.
Perhaps surprising to many, the evidence for this is very far from conclusive. Whether down to archeological scarcity, lack of population pressure / density or actual culture, there is little evidence of organized warfare until after the neolithic revolution. You'll find evidence of violence, but there is not much to indicate some big hunt for conquest.
Now to be clear, this isn't a settled debate. However, if this type of behavior was intrinsic to human nature, I think it is clear that we should see more clear evidence than we do. That points to human culture as the culprit, which means that gross simplification of "simple-minded humans" is not very useful. Rather we should look to the institutions and beliefs of our societies.
And this distinction is important, because it means there are ideas and people responsible. You can't just blame it on genes and hormones and pretend there is no use in pointing fingers.
That's not true. The current tribe of modern humans wiped out the Neanderthals and the Denisovans after a bit of interbreeding.
We had advantages .... the survivors had tools like sewing needles which were used to stitch together animal hides and facilitate survival through an ice age. Things like that were necessary to expand out of Africa.
That's not true. The current tribe of modern humans wiped out the Neanderthals and the Denisovans after a bit of interbreeding.
We had advantages .... the survivors had tools like sewing needles which were used to stitch together animal hides and facilitate survival through an ice age. Things like that were necessary to expand out of Africa.
WE 100% caused neanderthals exctinction but it isn't obvious yet if we did by direct genocide, or because our settlements pushed them into far worse areas as they shunned direct confrontation and then they died because the areas couldn't sustain them
That's not true. The current tribe of modern humans wiped out the Neanderthals and the Denisovans after a bit of interbreeding.
We had advantages .... the survivors had tools like sewing needles which were used to stitch together animal hides and facilitate survival through an ice age. Things like that were necessary to expand out of Africa.
WE 100% caused neanderthals exctinction but it isn't obvious yet if we did by direct genocide, or because our settlements pushed them into far worse areas as they shunned direct confrontation and then they died because the areas couldn't sustain them
That our species wiped out the neanderthals in some kind of violent conquest of territory is a very popular hypothesis. In the popular zeitgeist it has become the accepted version, because it is dramatic and eye-catching.
It is an idea that stems from the idea of the "human brute" of the 1800s and early 1900s, and likely sprinkled with a lot of our own culture and understanding of territory. However, in terms of evidence there is not much of it.
Recent evidence actually throws a wrench into this theory by showing that our species co-existed on the European continent for far longer than previously anticipated.
