Gilbert Arenas and 5 others arrested in a federal gambling ring

how is it stealing if you agree to it?

I tell you come work for me you can make 5,000 a night doing the exact same thing you normally do for 300 a night but you need to kick me back 10 or 20 percent. You agree. Where is the stealing?

Now if he told these girls hey you're gonna make a lot in tips here, said nothing about taking a cut and then when they went to cash out the chips at the end of their first night he took a cut that would be stealing.

I assume these were high stakes PLO games.Poker is legal in LA in casinos, etc. Not sure why people would play there, but maybe softer games for the same stakes as in casinos. There isn't much PLO played in casinos in LA. LA still has a lot of limit games in addition to NLHE.

Arenas is accused with being involved with organized crime figures to run the games. Sounds like it was a significant operation with multiple tables, and maybe different types of games and stakes.

Seems unusual to have federal charges for a poker game, particularly one in a private home. Arenas is charged with 3 counts with mandatory minimums of 5 years each. The way it works with federal cases these days, he pretty much has to plead to guilty to something. Seems highly unusual to be making a federal case for that sort of thing.

The girls got tips for "companionship", which the house got a cut of. Maybe more than serving drinks. Probably Arenas does not have most of his money left to get involved in something like that.

If you wanna tell me taking a cut was illegal in California I'm sure you're right. The entire operation was illegal. So what's your point? These girls knew their job was illegal, obviously paid no taxes and had no problem with it. Nobody stole from them.

What cordi said.

Imagine if your boss offered you a promotion but only if you agreed to kick him back 25% of the raise.

Once in Mexico I agreed to give some cops money so I wouldn't go to jail for not possessing drugs.

I wonder why the Wynn doesn't ask their employees to agree to kick back some of their tips if they want to keep working there.

Damn, more employers should do this. Want an acting job? Agree to give some of your pay to the casting director.

Want to be a cop? 10% of your salary goes to the cheif.

Wait until you find out about agents.

Anybody in here would happily kick back some money to make 10-20x to do the exact same thing they're doing already somewhere else. Something being illegal doesn't make these women victims. Even if they didn't kick a piece back to Arenas their job would be illegal.

If wynn dealers could make 5000 a night and had to give Wynn 1000 a night to deal at Wynn ,there would be a line from the Wynn to freemont street of applicants begging for the job. And none of them would say they were being stolen from.

Yeah, and plenty of people would be cops for 10% less pay. Plenty of people at the Wynn now would give kick backs if they had to do it to keep their jobs.

You're doing a lot of tap dancing just say it's ok to steal from employees if they make enough.

If you're gonna make an analogy make it an accurate one. Lmao @ calling this stealing.

I hate when people steal from me by handing me tons of money.

Yeah it was pretty gay to be honest

Lots of reasons, you're playing in a mansion, probably high quality food and drinks. Hot women who will provide you "companionship" which of course is way more than serving drinks or a massage.

Most if not all the players are there to have a good time and poker is somewhat secondary. Who wouldn't want to play there?

It's California so probably the dumbest state to pull something like this in. I'm sure they'll at least to try to play it up like the women were being abused, mistreated etc even though in all likelihood they were thrilled to be working there.

If anything it's more stealing from the players if they don't know it's going on. Thinking their tip is solely going to the women not Arenas and his group running the game. (Not that I think any of its stealing)

So a beauty salon that runs a structure where they get a percentage cut from their stylists is also stealing? Could go on and on for days with the analogies. Basically you think almost everyone in society is a thief or at least condones it with this logic.

I mean the govt is stealing from us every day so maybe you are right.

One of the girls gets fired and retaliate, or her boyfriend figures out more is going on than serving drinks and reports it. One of the wives/gf of the players finds out more is going on than just poker and reports it. Wife/gf doesn't like them losing piles of money in a poker game and reports it.

The least likely reason is they had to pay out a cut they already agreed upon before employment.

Basically there's gonna be a leak eventually so it's a pretty stupid thing to run. If you are going to do it better to do it somewhere where you think the authorities might turn a blind eye to it. Cali doesn't seem like the spot.

Not getting into any arguments about the legality or morality of kick-backs, that's almost as pointless as tipping discussions.

Nobody gets shorted. People working there know about it before getting hired. Also every customer with half a brain who cares enough to think about it for more than 15 seconds.

It's also not like that doesn't happen everywhere in the service industry where very big tips are involved. Bottle service at nightclubs is a perfect example.

Really unusual to have federal charges for an underground poker game and possible 15-year sentences.

They were playing PLO.

I guess that's a wrap.

Most high end restaurants and clubs operate the same way. You tip out security, bartenders and the house.

Agree its odd. Feels like they were investigating Gershman, 'suspected organized crime figure', couldn't find/prove what they wanted, but stumbled on this poker game.

Vegas valet jobs used to be super high paying for basically no skill. It was common for guys to buy their way in.

Its also illegal in Vegas for employers to keep a portion of tips for themselves, aka "the house"

Tons of assumptions thrown around; "they knew about the tax ahead of time", "they knew it was illegal", "they weren't paying taxes" to justify why you think its okay, but my suspicion is you will be hard pressed to find a state where they weren't, by the rule of law, stealing from the employees

Can we stop calling the prostitutes employees? In that line of 'work' paying a vig for 'protection' is standard even in the few places it's legal in the world.. That's the real reason this is a big federal case btw the human trafficking element nobody cares about PLO.

The entire operation was illegal. Nobody disputes that.

You really think employees at a home game don’t know it’s illegal? That’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. You cannot run a home game without ensuring it’s not conspicuous, that employees don’t park all over the neighborhood, that the house is secure and sure doors aren’t left open, etc, etc. and you can’t do any of this without coaching your employees on security.

Ok, I take it back. Thinking they were paying taxes is even more absurd.

Lol at having to explain how private games work to the old heads on 2p2.

The game may have a link to a missing woman, which escalates the matter.

I don't "think" they are paying taxes but I do know that everything I listed were assumptions that were made

One poster claimed it was stealing, a few posters tried to argue that because they are low skill workers who don't normally make that much the game runners aren't actually stealing (or should be allowed to steal), and my only argument is that it was legally theft of wages

You guys can do whatever tango you need to feel better about not liking factual claims it really doesn't bother me one bit

Yes how dare I assume people making thousands of a dollars a night cash at an illegal poker game weren't reporting the income!

I'm ashamed of myself and very sorry for the transgression.