Fast or slow play trips on the turn?

Don't overcall with trap hands like 54s, and especially when you're not on the BTN or BB.

Have to fold pre unfortunately.

Even more important than that, you absolutely have to fold flop when the PFR cbets big and the player next to act calls. It is so easy to be drawing dead here. Improving to two pair on a 5 and being against AQ is a disaster. Improving to trips and being against AA QQ or A4 is even worse. And without a backdoor flush draw, you are going to have to fold the turn any time you don’t hit one of your five “outs,” which is most of the time.

Making the pre-flop and flop calls is a big leak. Your winrate will improve after you fix these leaks. You will also save yourself from being in many difficult and confusing post-flop spots.

As played I would jam.

Fold pf. Fold flop.

Thanks so much.

Calling on the flop is bad I agree. Calling pf is not so bad if the btn and the players on the blinds are passive though. With position, post flop I don’t need to play my actual hand.

It's your money, Chief. Spew it as you wish.

Calling pre is whatever. It's $7 vs. passive players. I do it sometimes. That said, the call on the flop is pretty bad, but glad you got lucky. As played, I go ahead and raise, especially if I have an aggressive image, which you should have if you think you have can outplay them w/ 54.

By raising, is jamming the only size we should choose? Assuming any middling size we can't fold to his jam?

Passive aggression in all your comments here and what I've seen before is not helpful to anyone. Passive aggression is not just in the way you communicate, it's a big leak in your game as well. A bad mindset and the way you control your aggression affects your game undoubtedly.

Surely not everyone plays the same vpip. OK if you think 'coz I would fold pre and fold the flop, I wouldn't have this question on the turn therefore I don't wanna comment on OP's question which is about the TURN', then don't comment at all, save your aggression to your own game.

Regardless of what happened before the turn, my question was about the turn play. I don't deny that folding pre & flop is better, but only two comments actually addressed what to do on the turn.

It's like when someone spent unwise money in lottery and got lucky and now faced with different options of the reward plan - when seeking advice about which one to choose, the advice is just all 'you shouldn't buy lottery in the first place' - doesn't help.

If we were the villain, could we find a fold with AQ when we got jammed on the turn? Probably yes, that's why jamming with trips could lose value.
If we were the villain, let's say we got raised to 125, what's our 3-bet jamming range if we are not wild?

jamming is fine since it should be a 'whatever' call by him if he has a made hand. Dont be afraid to bet 90% of their stack since "allin" sounds scary to fish and they love to leave themselves with 5BB's on the river. As played never flat since that just proves you dont have AA/KK. You want to play pots HU IP so set the stage now. If opponents are tight enough to be 4betting you then you shouldnt be flatting them in the first place.

Appreciate your suggestions in particular the way your process my question in different perspectives. It's very helpful to hear different thoughts with reasoning. I don't get your last sentence though, do you mean V's turn 3-bet jam?

Cool story, Bro.

FWIW, you shouldn't post hands if you're too defensive to handle constructive criticism about making preflop mistakes.

That's a life leak, by the way.

As played, I think I jam turn. The turn bet feels pretty weak, but I still feel people like to hero call too much in these spots so might as well go for all the money - plus balancing what feels like an attacking spot is nice.

As others have said, overcalling pre is meh, definitely need to fold flop. I think you hit one of only two cards in the deck that result in being reasonably ahead here.

You defined 'constructive criticism' differently than 99.9% population and got my gender wrong. Those are two big cognitive leaks, btw.

This is also very dependent on the opponent.

Like most ppl folds Ax to a raise here unless you have a crazy aggro image.
Calling is ok but action gets shut down if bad card comes (Q, hearts).

If villain has a draw, he's probably shutting down on river if he misses. So a turn raise becomes good.
If villain has an Ax, he's probably check calling any river bet size on a blank.

And of course, villain can have nutted hands like AA/QQ/A4s, these nutted ranges money are all going in anyway.

Overall I think calling is fine.
If villain checks river on blank or flush card, we shoving on blank, betting small on flush card folds to raise obviously.

I appreciate your thought process.

If V has a naked ace it's hard for him to defend against a turn raise. I would also hate my life if I had AQ facing a raise.

Do we get any sizing tells from V's big flop bet and half-pot turn bet?

Grunch:

PRE - I have a habit of making loose over-calls pre-flop with low and middling suited connectors like 54s.

I do think it's a leak at low stakes, unless we have very good reads on our opponents, know their tendencies, and strongly believe we have a skill edge post flop. I think it may be okay to over-call on the BTN, but I think we should fold here, in the CO.

FLOP - Here again, I think it's a leak to over-call with bottom pair and not much else going on, other than the BDSD.

TURN - I think we can only raise if we're VERY certain V wouldn't c-bet the flop with AA or QQ. When V tank-barrels and action folds to us, I'd probably just flat to let V barrel again on the river if he so chooses. It seems like a way-ahead / way-behind spot, and we have position, so there's no need to raise.

It just seems really hard to construct a reasonable and balanced range that raises here on what is basically a brick turn. Other than 4x, what would we be repping in this line, when we just over-call pre?

Maybe we have AQ, or A4, or occasionally QQ that didn't 3B pre. It would be weird to suddenly wake up and start semi-bluffing the turn with a hand like KQhh when V is c-betting and barreling. That would only make sense if V checked.

I don't think we have any raises at all, unless we just have no respect whatsoever for V and his range. If he's just monkey-betting his entire range, and we think he'll call off with all his worse hands, okay, go ahead and raise.

If we flat and the flush comes in, and V checks, we can check back or go for some thin value, depending on if we think V is ever trapping when his draw gets there.

For the most part, I don't think most low-stakes V's are going to raise pre with a hand like KXhh, c-bet the flop multi-way, barrel a brick turn multi-way, and then slow down and check river when their draw comes in.

If we are going to raise here, and V only has $170 behind, with $165 in the pot, I think a jam is fine, and not too transparent, but I could also see min-clicking it, if we think he's likely to over-fold to a jam, or he'll spaz-jam in response to a min-click.

I don't see how we could ever raise and fold if he 3B jams on us. There's no size we can raise that will leave enough behind. If we min-click to $110, he'll only have $60 behind. We're not folding trips for $60 after putting $142 into the pot.

Thanks!

I posted the thread because in my own opinions, to check back, to min-click or to jam each has its own merits. I am pleased to hear different 2+2ers' reasonings about each options.

Personally, surely raising is my style. If I had KQhh, KThh, or even 23hh instead of my own hand, I jammed the turn as well. I can get enough of Ax to fold.

I remember asking in the forum before, whether it's realistic to get opponents to fold 'top top' if the board texture favours us. I found the answer when I managed to accidentally get the pre-fop 3 bettor who led two streets on an As Jd 6c 9c board and folded his A9s to my turn raise. What I was trying to say is that sometimes it is very player-dependent - there's no textbook one single answer to lots of poker questions. Given that I am aggressive with my drawing hands, I don't prefer to slow-play.

That said, I think the vast majority 3-bet post flop are sooooo skewed towards monster value hands, to the extent 'pot committed' cannot technically apply in lots of contexts. Can I ask you what's your 3! jamming range on the turn, as played, if you were the villain and got min-clicked? Thanks in advance.

My jamming range is going to depend on my read and my tilt level from letting my stack dwindle to $170 and getting min clicked on a brick turn.

Preflop is whatever, I'm biased because 54 is my favorite junky hand.

Flop is an easy fold against a c-bet on an A-high board and then a call.

Turn you bink, and why would you call that much on this flop if you're not going to get the money in?

I don’t think V is folding to a jam. How can hero have a 4? Only A4 makes sense and that raises flop a lot. Hero shouldn’t have any other 4x calling flop. I’m never folding AQ as villain.

Jam this turn all day. It's 1/2. Very little that you beat folds to the jam that would call a smaller raise and it's hard to think of any river cards we want to see. Get max value from AK and AQ.

As for prior streets I'm always folding flop while thinking to myself I should have folded pre.

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Flop call is terrible.

That does create an opportunity though: if your opponent doesn't think you're terrible enough to call flop then a jam will look FOS and you may get looked up.

On the other hand, do you have an image as the sort of person who overcalls preflop with AQ? If so then AK might escape the hook