1/3NL - AKo - TPTK multiway vs a shortstack donk-shove on turn
Somewhat interesting multiway hand. Could be a "standard" decision but line-checking after a session review.
1/3NL, 8-handed
I'm ~$700eff with BB and LJ. SB has ~$140.
SB: Has only been at table couple orbits. Started with $300. Very loose PF. Seems very fishy. So far, raised one hand with AJs & went to showdown. Called a few others with middling Ax, connectors, etc. Saw him bet pot (~$60) when checked to on the river in a smallish pot with a busted draw. Lost a big pot when he got rivered to get down to less than $50 a few hands ago. Seems to be in the "trying to recoup my losses" mode.
BB: At least competent 2/5 & 5/10 player (could be even better). I've played a few hours with him in 1/3 games while he's been waiting for seats at bigger games.
LJ: Has only been at table couple orbits. Seems very loose, passive, has limped/called raises with offsuit broadways, Q8s that I've seen so far.
Preflop: Hero is UTG with AsKd and raises to $15. LJ, SB, BB all call.
Flop ($51): AcTc7d
SB, BB check, Hero bets $40, LJ, SB, BB all call.
I've been experimenting with multiway pot lines a bit. Although not the "best" board, I just lead and make it fairly large as it's unlikely it will get stabbed with only LJ left to act.
Turn ($211): Js.
SB assembles his chips and shoves his last $87, BB folds, Hero???
At the table thought on this for a bit. I think it's a clear fold with LJ to act behind me. Usually, a bigger donk-lead on a nut-changing turn into 3 players is a big hand, but my reads as described above and his stack size put at least some number of high-equity, low-equity, and/or random airball bluffs in his range...I noodled around with equity estimates and generally I have ~15% if you only range him on 2pr, sets, straights. If you throw in a few HE/LE draws and an airball, it goes up into the 24-28% range
I guess I'm mainly looking for opinions on: If I was last to act, do you sigh-call this? How much does the LJ still left to act influence your decision?
17 Replies
I limp in preflop but that's me.
Results (which are expected) kinda suck, at least imo, in that we probably have a fairly smalliish SPR against some stacks and thus could easily be put in a commitment spot, all with just TP which is unlikely to improve, and meanwhile no one made much of a mistake preflop against us due to IO. Anyhoo, that's the way I think.
A couple of the stacks are unclear but overall I'd concentrate on the bigger ones with my first bet, and I don't want to build too big of a pot right now against those stacks, so I'd bet way smaller on the flop and see what shakes out.
Fairly craptastic turn spot. I don't think we can fold for this sizing versus this guy and we do have outs if behind. Yeah, the guy behind is a little bit of a problem (and part of this is due to building a huge bloated pot OOP preflop), but I think it's a risk we just have to deal with. If dude behind just calls and a blank rivers, I probably bet/fold super small on the river for value (folding to any other action).
GcluelessNLnoobG
gg limps AA. LOL.
I definitely at least call, but I probably go ahead and raise to get LJ out. Not folding 😉
my experience with trying to limp RR AA-KK and AK UTG has not been good. usually what happens is it ends up a 3 or 4 way limped pot and i win like $5 bucks after a flop bet.
i think id rather stay home and play video games than play 10% vpip and win $5 when i finally get to play a hand , but to each their own i guess?
the reason is doesnt work, i suspect, is that when you have these hands you block other hands that people like to raise pf with, so you are better off raising yourself and making them call with worse hands than trying to raise with worse hands.
Snap call? Then pray LJ doesn't come over the top. And get to showdown for free?
Utg I limp raise this all day.
I think the j is really not good for you. I would probably call and if the Lj raises, I think I would fold.
I find having a 0% raising range in EP/MP is an effective strategy at LLSNL (I'm obviously limping in here to attempt to get in a imp/reraise with a large percentage of my hands). Some will only do this in the very earliest of positions / certain table conditions, but I do it all the way to the HJ at all tables (admittedly some tables are better than others for doing this).
GcluelessNLnoobG
Thanks for the all the thoughts! Seems like little bit of mixed opinions on call vs fold vs raise…
I did end up folding mainly influenced by the player left to act behind me. Raising to isolate seemed like a little too thin.
Of course, player behind me mucked as well.
SB did not show, claimed he was “sweating bullets” while I was thinking because he had 88.
zero chance he had 88
probably had the nuts and didnt like that you folded your ace
Flop bet absurdly large. AP hurry up and call turn. LJ prob continues, but you'll have options otr
I think we should over-bet the flop.
The turn seems like a close decision, such that I could see an argument for calling, raising, or folding. I'd probably end up calling, because I don't think V has the nuts, but it wouldn't shock me if he shows up with something better than TPTK.
Whaaaat whaaaat? The pot is protected and there's no side pot. So it's either bet/fold extremely small attempting to get value from a worse Ax, or simply check/fold (which is also ok).
GcluelesswhaaaatwhaaaatnoobG
Yea, I’m not saying I necessarily believe that. But given the way he was playing, it wouldn’t have surprised me if I did call and that’s what he showed. I tend to think it was more likely I was beat (just based on total combos of hands he could have called with preflop and continued to a flop bet vs. draws and random airball bluffs ).
I know 5x is already a large opening bet preflop, but if it’s going multiway, maybe consider tightening up your UTG range a bit and raising first in to 18 or 20.
Standard play on the flop with tptk with four players incl. a competent V is a small raise. I also like Doc’s play of an overbet on the flop, pushing SB all in, and looking for calls from AQ and AJ, and folding to a raise. With bet to 40, you gave SB an easy shove decision on the turn. What to do on the flop is unclear because of the various stack sizes. I’m pretty confident no one can currently solve this spot.
J on the turn is a terrible card. I might fold against an unknown. Because random V might push for 87 dollars with AQ, I call after reading the posts. Hero’s equity with capped ranges after the flop calls is around 40 percent, if LJ folds. So call and prepare to reload.
V is FOS or will get stacked quickly if he played 88 like this.
I think you played it fine. Or as well as I could.
