Austin, TX Area Poker

It's almost now both venues are doing the same promos. I saw both locations now offer a 9hrs for $99 promo. Also saw a flat $50 daily rate for Tuesday action. It also seems they are giving away high hand promos on Saturday daytime to attract more players.

I took advantage of the $10 yearly membership deal they had in Aug 2024. Im curious if when many of these same accounts expire if they try a nice renewal offer.

I did see Lodge has the new Odds bistro restaurant open but haven't tried it yet. Prices on their menu certainly seemed higher.

Always wanted to see some kind of limit games for hi/lo, HORSE, or other games but they never seem to form. I welcome the competition between venues and hope it will benefit all the players.

Anyone know what happened at the Lodge that they lost all/nearly all their PLO action to TCH?

I've mostly played on Saturdays recently and the PLO at the Lodge has gotten off to a slow start, with only 1 table running until mid-afternoon when they get a 2nd going.

However, I wouldn't say all the action was lost to TCH, seems mostly evenly split when I've checked Poker Atlas.

I haven't played at TCH in a bit, but here's my perspective when I had:

PROS

Much nicer ambiance/setting
Food is better AND better priced

CONS

Omaha games were tighter (straight PLO plus the bomb pot only game)
Chairs are nice at TCH, but slightly less comfortable than the ones at The Lodge

I've spoken with Doug and with management at TCH in the past about what I perceive to be the issues they have. The 1/2/5 PLO is essentially the entry-level game for people to cut their teeth on.

But when you have unlimited straddles and match the stack, guys with deep pockets come in and jack the game up, making it play like a shallow stacked 40/80. And if you aren't straddling you catch a lot of **** and whining from the misregs about it.

Well, that makes it extremely difficult to attract new players to PLO, or for those who do try it out, to stick around and keep coming back, they get chewed up too quickly.

It seems to be a Texas issue with all the grinders controlling the direction the room operators take with these games. The grinders want deeper buyins, straddles and match the stack, it gives them extra edges.

The problem is, the grinders don't understand the need to build a sustainable poker ecosystem, they're short-sighted, they want to scoop up as much money as quickly as possible. So while it's good for them personally short-term, it's bad for the games long-term. The fun recreational players need an entry point to games that doesn't put them so far out of their comfort zone, and that allows them to win once in awhile so they'll come back, you've got to bleed them slower.

In addition, both rooms have done a tremendous job of building their brands within the poker enthusiast community. But unfortunately a large segment of that community are the misregs with their hoodies, headphones, scowls on their faces, they don't socialize or understand their ****ing JOB at the table is to be an entertainer and make it welcoming and fun for the players who are losing to them.

They've focused far too heavily on drawing in traveling grinders to come to Austin to play series events, rather than working on investing into local outreach and marketing efforts to build a core of regulars that live in the Greater Austin Metro.

We're over a decade into poker being in this market and a huge percentage of the 2+ million people in this market don't even know poker is available to them.

To top it off, the tech sector is experiencing layoffs. Austin has a massive tech corridor. So now you're losing a lot of the action players (indian and asian engineers working in tech) as the downsizings hit.

It's also heading into warmer weather, so people are going to be going outside more and playing less, and the WSOP has started so that's going to impact local attendance as well.

Yesterday when I looked there was 5 games at TCH and 0 at Lodge so something obv happened

Sometimes it's 3/4 TCH and 1/2 Lodge but the majority of players have left the Lodge for some reason it seems

Interesting, I haven't heard and recently have only been playing on Saturdays so hadn't kept tabs on midweek games.

Looking at Poker Atlas right now the Lodge has 2 PLO games plus a half NLH, half PLO game going, and TCH has 1 PLO and 1 bomb pot game.

Lodge announcing a new $5 fee every time you check in, predictably going over terribly.

Yup, that and now moving to a pre-pay system on time. People liked postpay because it:

1. Kept money on the tables

2. Didn't result in constant interruptions at the table to collect time from players

But definitely the biggest issue is that now in addition to a club membership fee and an hourly seat fee, we now have to pay a $5 "check-in" fee as well. This applies to everyone, so tournament players will feel the pinch if they're just going to play a smaller buyin, morning/afternoon tournament that already has a high fee attached, and of course their cash game grinders that play a lot will now be paying some pretty high amounts every month as well.

The natives are up in arms on their socials about this, predictably.

It's mind-boggling the lack of awareness these room operators have.

Yeah I was excited when I saw the $25 annual membership, I don't currently have one, just play the occasional tourney, don't really enjoy cash though I'd been pondering trying to play more soon.

Then the $5 check in fee just made feel like not playing at all. Rake on tourneys is high enough, adding $5 is just going to make the smaller ones completely unbeatable, plus the hassle of having to pay the $5 at the front desk then go to pay your buyin.

Damn, that sucks.
Last fall they had the annual for $10 and added on to the 10 months I already had so I have a over a year left on it.
Looks like they are trying to scratch back that money from those of us that did that.
Also have $800 in credit for hours, wonder if I can use that for the $5.

TCH is nicer in all respects, don't know why anyone would go to Lodge over TCH now.

I was going to The Lodge because the action was just better than at TCH, at least in the PLO streets, I can't speak on NLH cash games.

And I always felt like The Lodge put together a better tournament schedule than TCH, not that I play a ton of tournaments.

But for sure The Lodge is pretty dumpy and the ambiance is a bajillion times better at TCH.

Yea Lodge had the majority of PLO action before a couple weeks ago and like even right now there is 2 games at each place so it seems like they're still getting some on some days....no idea why it was 5 at TCH and 0 at Lodge the other day. I haven't been down there in a couple months but if all things are equal I'd much rather play at TCH for decor/vibe and food

bahaha they already walked back the $5 fee. The backlash was so obvious and predictable. Insane malpractice to just piss off your customer base and lose some trust/goodwill for nothing at all. If you have to charge the fee to be viable, gotta plow through. If not, any human could have foreseen the reaction, so how do you possibly announce this if you are gonna walk it back when people are pissed?

With TCH hourly going up $1 next week , the lodge does get more appealing
thats like $2 per hour cheaper to play at lodge when you factor in the comp

Yup, the pitchforks came out and they walked it back, quicker than I expected to be honest. They've focused too heavily on marketing themselves to the traveling grinders and misregs, and unfortunately for them, those are the players most likely to count every single cent they're being charged.

I'm curious if there would be enough interest to get a weekly Omaha Hi/lo 10/20 game running at an Austin card room.

I'd be interested if at a good room (probably TCH or Lodge). I wouldn't be an every week player and would prefer HORSE but O8 would be good enough for me.

Hi I am considering a trip to ATX to check out Lodge + TCH and had some basic questions

• 1. Fee: I read in other threads the hourly rate is $12/hour – is that everything? Are there any base fees or annual/monthly membership costs that I am missing? Any bulk discounts for people wanting to play 10+ hour sessions (e.g. week pass or something related)
  
  
• 2. Volume: Been checking PokerAtlas here and there and honestly was expecting more tables to be running (particularly in afternoon). I wonder if WSOP is a factor here and we should expect more games to run in late July/Aug?
  
  
• 3. Games: Do tables have bomb pots, mandatory straddles, and/or stand-up/squid games to be aware of?
  
  
• 4. Pool: Expecting some mixed answers here but curious if games are mostly pros or a random mix each day. I'd mainly be playing 1-2/1-3/2-5 NLHE and maybe 2-2 PLO if it matters. Also I've always read that games play bigger than the stakes
  

Many thanks to anyone who cares to add their 2cents!

Both rooms have been in promotional wars for awhile now. Lodge is $12/hr and TCH is $13/hr. I snagged the $1 annual memberships when they offered them, I know the Lodge doesn't do daily memberships, but it's $10 for a weekly, not sure what TCH is charging.

There are promotions as well where some hours are no time charges at all, or you get free hours for starting a new game, or you get free hours if you register a tournament on time, etc.

Right now the weather is nicer and kids are out of school, so less people are gambling and instead going outside and spending time on other activities. And of course we're in the middle of the WSOP so a lot of folks are away for that as well.

In addition, there's been significant layoffs in the tech sector, which is a big part of the Austin market, so that hampers attendance as well.

I don't play hold em very often, but I do play PLO. The 1/2 with a $5 bring-in is pretty much the game you're going to find most of the time, the 2/2 rarely if ever runs. At the Lodge it's unlimited straddles plus match the stack, so guys will jack that game up and it'll play like a 20/40 or 40/80 at times.

TCH tends to be more subdued in the PLO streets, but the games also tend to be tighter with less action players.

Many thanks! Yeah I saw Doug's tweet of him playing in the 1/2 and saw several 5K+ stacks so this pretty much lines up lol. Thanks again!

There's a number of factors at play

1. Post WSOP - plenty of players went to Vegas and lost a bunch of money. That leaves less weak players returning to the player pool until they replenish their funds

2. Economy - Everyone's feeling the pinch these days with all our grocery, utility, housing, etc. costs rising. This leaves less disposable income for people to put into playing poker, and the costs of playing continue to go up, meaning less fun recs and more grinders who are buying $500-1K in time at a time at discounts.

3. Austin Is A Tech Hub - And the tech center is experiencing significant layoffs. Plenty of action players with high-paying jobs are finding themselves without those jobs now, and not able to donate in the streets as much

4. Failure Of Clubs To Target Fun Local Recs - the clubs have done a tremendous job of building their brands within the poker enthusiast community. But that means they're attracting more skilled players and traveling grinders, making the games tougher. With 2+ million people in the Greater Austin Metro, very few people know poker is even available to them, even after a decade of it being available. They haven't expended the right efforts to attract and retain the fun local recreational players enough.

5. Game Structures - When you attract better players AND structure your games in ways that give those players extra edges (deeper buyins, unlimited straddles and match the stack) you are destroying your own poker economy. You are allowing the grinders to shred the few fun recs we have to ribbons. The recs don't get to win often enough in the cash games, then they stop coming. Now you're stuck with Klaus from Germany and Kangaroo Jack from Australia who have zero social skills and further make the games less appealing for the fun recs.

6. Tournament Structures - Unlimited re-entry, multi-day, multi-flight, multi-bag and top-heavy prize pools. All of these have made it that much harder for the recreational player to experience their dream of winning a tournament. The cards are literally stacked against them. They may bust Phil Ivey once, but if Ivey has unlimited lives, Joe Q Public ain't busting him five times. This results in more of the tournament prize pool money being funneled into the wrong pockets, the grinders. They're pulling that money out of your poker ecosystem for their life expenses. You need to flatten payouts, pay a larger percentage of the field and give the recs a fighting chance. A rec feels accomplished just cashing in a tournament, even if it's just 2x their buyin. Now they have money in their pockets, maybe they sit in a cash game, maybe they play another tournament. The money will recirculate in your poker economy far better than the current system.

I've had these talks before with leadership at many of the clubs, but they never listen. Let me win Powerball and I'll show em how it's done.

I think there are a few reasons for this:

• 1. Bomb pots are no longer primarily just a Texas thing. They are played in a lot of places and training materials are available. It is less likely that people have no idea what they are doing.
  
• 2. People are playing more and better at PLO which impacts PLO. I don't see people who don't know they have to use 2 cards as much anymore and other beginner PLO type mistakes.
  
• 3. Austin is becoming a bigger and bigger tournament location even to the point having WPT come. All the tournaments attract more seasoned players in the player pool instead of players just doing the "Freerolls" and cash to splash around in the action.
  
• 4. There is not a big enough cash game ecosystem of fish/whales to support the additional cash tables and two clubs now plus the private games. When I first started playing at the Lodge, there was always at least 1-2 action players at every table. By last year, there were too many tables where sometimes need to drive action or table change to get with a good player. Now, you might need to table change or switch between TCH/Lodge and deal with even more good players fighting for the easy money,
  
• 5. The structure in Austin favors better players and helps make weak players lose money faster. There are deeper stacks, straddles, and action that make games bigger than games in places like Vegas. Additionally, time vs rake also favors winning players as losing players when they get stacked now owe extra money instead of having paid the rake while in the game. Add to that with time, food, drinks, etc. not always being allowed to pay with chips from your stack makes poker a more expensive activity for casuals.
  

This isn't all the reasons but just a few that are top of my mind. I am hoping eventually more mixed games come to Austin as you'll get weaker player pool again.

I'll add one thing to the tournament structures that the Lodge is really bad with doing...don't have the tournaments always end on Monday afternoon when recs have work. It is unlikely I would make the final table but I am not going to play a tournament that I will be unable to be at the final table. They have so many starting flights that could easily do day 2 on a Saturday and final table Sunday or structure table so Day 2 will end at a decent time on Sunday night then final table Monday evening not during work hours.

Yup, Joe Q Public has to work his 9-5 all week, definitely gotta factor that in

If you're talking about fixed-limit mixed games, that tends to attract tighter/nittier players overall.

Not to mention, the grinders that will start these games introduce absolutely ridiculous new games/variants to make games more confusing, so if you do get some fun recs in the mix, they're going to get absolutely wrecked because of the massive number of games, rules, strategies and variants that exist.

Plus the hourly rates paid in these games make them difficult to sustain feeder games like a 4/8 or 6/12 limits where new players can learn the games.

So they're forced into 10/20, 15/30 or 20/40 limits and are facing much tougher opposition.

Then there's also the issues that impact the clubs and the dealers with mixed games.

A number of mixed games are 6-max, so you're seating less players per table and making less per square foot

Mixed games tend to play slower, so dealers are getting in less hands and mixed players aren't known for being overly generous tippers, so now dealers are further taking hits.

And I get it, dealers in TX are absolutely spoiled with the incomes they make compared to the majority of locations in the country. That being said, if you're making 30-60/hr do YOU want to take a paycut to deal to a bunch of grumbly mixed players?

And don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE playing mixed games, but I try to see things from all the perspectives.

It could make sense to get more games and fill some empty tables to offer a reduced hourly fee for players to enjoy 4/8 and 6/12 style games (with half or full kills). It would definitely catch newcomers eyes seeing people sitting with tons of chips in front of them and the "big" pots that are generated.

But, the rooms would likely need to introduce a $2 chip into the mix.

As it stands now, the mixed games are using $5 chips which produces stacks in front of players that are much smaller and less visually attention grabbing.