Whose the A-Hole?
This transpired yesterday afternoon and would like some insight into who deserves the biggest KINs.
1/2, Sunday early afternoon, local smallish poker room. 2 tables running. Room has an automatic HH promo where Aces full of deuces or better automatically gets 200 on the spot, and 20 dollar needs to be in the pot.
V1 - older, white guy, reg in the room - always hits most hours played in a quarter promo - has some sort of medical condition where his face is always constantly shaking (obvious to everyone) that this guy is here to pass time, have a good time, but can be stubborn. I have seen V get kicked out for a 24 hour period in the past ~1.5 years or so ago because him and another old reg kept fighting over leg space under the table.
V1 has just lost a very healthy pot a few hands prior when he xr a QJ9dd6c turn, and then called a 3B jam (orginal raiser on turn led river, V1 raised, OR jams, V tank calls) on a 4c river and lost to KTss. NO IDEA WTH V had with river and turn action maybe a set?
V2 - Younger white guy, might be a dealer in the room, def in the region, looks unkempt.
OTTH -
V1 - 300
V2 - 250ish
Pf - V2 has UTG straddle to 5, V2 calls the 5 in the Button -
Heads up to a flop (13$) of AsQsTs - V2 x, V1 holds out a single five dollar chip and says 'I need help'. V2 looks at the board confused, says "I hope you don't hit your set, because I have my favorite hand, and makes the call"
Turn ($23)
AsQsTs4h
V2 x, V1 bets 10, V2 looks confused and annoyed but calls.
River (43$)
AsQsTs4h3c
V2 bets 20, V1 jams, V2 snaps it off - V2 shows over 72ss, and V1 shows over the royal flush and KJss. V2 absolutley loses it on V1 for asking for help and then stacking him off on river & betting turn once the hh threshold was hit.
Table mostly agrees with V2.
Both idiots? One an idiot and another an angler?
Bonus tomfoolery - Floor comes over (worst floor in history of floors) to get V2s id for HH payout about 5 minutes later and table is talking about the events, and he comes over and tells all players at the table to immediately drop the conversation/change subject or we would invalidate V2s HH - one guy sort of brushes him off/laughs him off, and he pulls the rando off from the table to give him a 'stern talking too' away from the table.
Well, V2 apparently called pre twice and the losing hand is getting paid the HH bonus? Then of course the grammar police cites Who's the A-hole and too at the end.
Seems that everybody at the table is an *******. There's the two V's engaged in idiotic table talk during the hand. Then there's those talking about a nothing burger after the hand. The goal is to take each other's money, a HH bonus means nothing as far as the play of the hand goes.
And lol at the floor threatening to withhold a payout to another player when one of the many *******s at the table opens his mouth.
Just humans being stupid humans.
I have no idea why V2 is upset here. He won V1’s stack and got the HH bonus with his royal flush. Why does he care that V1 asked for help? Why would he care that V1 shoved on the river or bet the turn. Seems like perfectly good plays with his hand anyway; he just ran into a monster.
Is there something I’m missing?
The OP is full of mistakes, but it seems that V1 was the one straddling from the BTN and flopping the royal and winning the HH promo.
Not sure who is who but the guy with the royal did nothing wrong. KITN to floor.
V2 sounds like a moron. They were both engaging in table talk, who cares? They're playing a hand of poker, players may fold-check-call-bet-raise, if your opponent stuck to those actions in a timely manner there is nothing to talk about. Nice hand, move on.
Is everyone in this thread on the spectrum? Once V1 bets $5 in a HU pot and asks for help, he's claiming he's already hit his HH and needs the call for the pot to be $20 to qualify.
Consequently, him betting again for any amount after this is a dick move.
Of course, V2 thought he was being angled, which is probably why he made the dubious decision to raise the river.
Two weeks ago, I was in a blind vs blind situation with QJs where I didn't chop and said "I'd like to see a flop.". We both checked the flop, and the turn bought me the Royal. I said "I need help" and bet $5 to push the pot over the qualifying $10, and my opponent called. We checked the river, and I once I tabled my Royal I gave him back the $8 he put into the pot.
It would never occur to me to bet again after the opponent helped me out by putting in money.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is either autistic and/or just a douchebag.
The original post doesn't make it clear, but I'm guessing there's a minimum amount of $ that has to be in the pot for it to qualify for a high hand. The person with the royal was telling the other player not to fold on the flop so he could make sure he gets the high hand. There is sort of an unspoken rule that if you ask, "how much is in the pot?" before betting and kind of make eye contact with the other player, then they should call on the flop and you will return their money later.
It's basically collusion and against the rules, but it's generally accepted by everyone as harmless including the casino employees.
The floor was telling people to stop talking about it because he didn't want to have to invalidate the high hand, but he technically should have if the players colluded to get the minimum amount in the pot.
Now the other player was too oblivious to realize that the guy was telling him he had a high hand, and paid him off anyway. Either that or he felt he was being angled as suggested above.
Other players felt that since the guy with the royal had asked his opponent not to fold on the flop, he should have just checked it down once the minimum amount for a high hand was out there.
It's basically, "we were colluding for the high hand, how dare you turn around and stack me."
I agree that was sort of a dick move, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for the other player who paid him off either.
Is everyone in this thread on the spectrum Once V1 bets $5 in a HU pot and asks for help, he's claiming he's already hit his HH and needs the call for the pot to be $20 to qualify.Consequently, him betting again for any amount after this is a dick move. Of course, V2 thought he was being angled, which is probably why he made the dubious decision to raise the river. Two weeks
Not everywhere uses your "code" to discuss the HH w/o discussing the HH? Why not just raise the $5 pre so the $10 is in the pot. No need of games to break house rules.. But your scenario has one big difference anyway. You did not chop, so the $5 bet becomes pretty obvious w/o any code words.
Your ping is also against the rules though you can get around that by paying him from the HH bonus and not your stack.
As to betting again, some of us don't chase HH bonuses. We play our hands as we play our hands. That is I am going to try and extract every $ from you that I can w/o doing anything shady. I would much rather play poker and bet my hand vs. playing code word games.
Even if your scenario and understanding are 100% correct, once the V bets river, after the HH min$ is met should tell the other V that I am crushed and he screwed me out of a couple of bucks, but maybe if I fold and he hits the HH, he will refund me the $5 extra. Heck, maybe the whole $10.
No one angled anyone. Both are A-holes probably.
BTW, 'hope you hit your set' also should have been a outright statement 'I have a royal' and he was hoping the other V makes quads for the BBJP. But hey, I guess only some code words mean anything.
Ok I was confused as to whether V1 or V2 had the royal. In the hand description it seems from the OP that V1 had it, but then in the description of the aftermath OP says V2 was showing his ID for the HH promo and referred to V2’s HH. If it’s V1 with the royal I could see V2 being miffed, but nobody forced V2 to bet the 20 on the river or call the jam. I’m not sure that V1 really did anything wrong. Maybe there’s an unwritten rule that you shouldn’t try to win money from an opponent when you know you are getting a promo payout, but that’s dumb. Why shouldn’t V1 try to win V2’s stack as well. Especially since V2’s stack is more than the promo. Maybe I could see just checking down if it’s a bad beat jackpot for several thousand and the additional money from the stack is a fraction of the payout, but that’s not the case here. The stack is a significant payout as well.
Wondering why they didn't use the conventional terminology for the area and say, "Could you spread the pot?"
V2 is the idiot. Should have realized that their flush was no good except against air.
I've read this story. V1 and V2 are the same person. The version that I know is told in first person. "The Narrator" is one of the two Villains, and "Tyler" is his alter ego.
Royal guy bet $5 (which brings the pot to $20) saying "I need help" which in old man high hand promo speak means "I need a call to get $20 in the pot even if you have bumkis I will throw your five dollars back".
IMO, it's bad form. Either play your hand or if you announce you need help with the high hand then check it down.
I agree with Fore.
Poker is literally a predatory game where the strong take from the weak. Also, if you play stupid games where you discuss the pot (even in code) you have to accept whatever stupid results happen.
Lately my solution to all of this is if I am playing in a place where there is a minimum for the high hand and it becomes blind versus blind, I just look at my hand and decide if I am willing to play it for $10. I tell the other blind that I want to have the minimum in the pot in case either of us hits a high hand and raise to $10. No need for post flop code words. Just do it pre flop. This has a hidden benefit where I steal lots of other blinds without acrimony because I have explained why I am raising.
That said, two unusual stories.....
The first, I am in the big blind with 2 5 suited. It limps to me and I check. 5 players to the flop with $15 in the middle. Flop comes 3 4 x of my suit. Straight flush draw. For whatever reason I check the flop. It checks around. Turn pairs the board, so I check and it checks around. River is the beautiful ace of my suit. Achievement - Straight Flush attained. I bet out $5 hoping to get a call by an Ace or a flush. First two players insta-fold, the 3rd thinks and folds rather quickly afterwards. The 4th is about to fold and I say "Wait!!!" I ask the dealer how much is in the pot. He spreads the meager pot. I then blatantly tell the remaining player that he could make $10 if he wanted to.
He looks at me funny, he is confused. I say that calling $5 could make him $10. I am clearly crossing a line here, but I am desperate and do not know what else to do. He eventually folds. I am a bit frustrated and show my hand and asks the dealer pushes me the meager pot I tell him that if he called the $5, I would have given him $15.
Dealer looks at me funny and says that it might have been collusion.
Yep. I know. I had to try. The likely penalty is to deny the HH payoff.
No biggie. $200 is not going to change anything. I tried and failed. No one's fault but my own.
The second story was when I was a similar situation that I was not involved in. A couple of players to the flop. Flop comes 2 2 x. Checks through. Turn is a blank, checks through, river is meaningless. Big blind bets $5. Players start to fold. It gets to the last player. Big blind asks the dealer how much is in the pot and tells the other player that he should call.
Other player is rather new to poker. He thinks a bit and says raise and throws out $20. Big blind is literally vibrating. After a second or two, he says he is all in. Other player instantly calls. Big blind turns over pocket 2's for quads (the obvious nuts). The other player turns over 2nd pair and says he thought the big blind was bluffing. He said that when the other player asked for a call he thought he could push him off the hand.
Yep.
I've read this story. V1 and V2 are the same person. The version that I know is told in first person. "The Narrator" is one of the two Villains, and "Tyler" is his alter ego.
The first rule of colluding for high hand is you don't talk about colluding for high hand.
That sounds so much as some one is spicy for other guy getting the jackpot, and it makes me feel bad for reading it, chill dude, you'll have your share of jackpots in your life, poker is fair
cheez
The first rule of colluding for high hand is you don't talk about colluding for high hand.
The second rule of colluding for high hand is that if you're both V1 and V2 in the hand, you shouldn't need to verbalize your collusion.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
V1 - old white guy, button, asked for help, kept betting after asking for help, had royal flush and won hh
V2 - Utg straddle, loose dealer type, had 72ss. Got mad that v asked for help and ended up stacking himself imo.
V2 is an idiot. Owned himself -- nobody else to blame. V1's actions were perfectly fine -- happen all the time.
V2 can't have it both ways. If he insists that "I need help" means "I have a royal flush" then betting and snapping off V2 is a total self-own. The reality is he didn't believe V1, and upon realizing this, V1 gave him one more chance to believe.
I agree with Fore.
Poker is literally a predatory game where the strong take from the weak. Also, if you play stupid games where you discuss the pot (even in code) you have to accept whatever stupid results happen.
Yep.
I actually think that the guy using code to get the other guy to come into the pot potentially is angle shooting. Not only are they trying to angle shoot the poker room, but they are angle shooting the rightful winner of the high hand who got the 20 dollars in there playing the game straight up.
I see this happen in dry side pots a lot also.
It always feels sketchy when I see it. However, not point in complaining about it, considering how common this type of stuff happens.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
V1 - old white guy, button, asked for help, kept betting after asking for help, had royal flush and won hh
V2 - Utg straddle, loose dealer type, had 72ss. Got mad that v asked for help and ended up stacking himself imo.
V2 definitely overreacted. This is a 1/2 game we were talking about.
I actually think that the guy using code to get the other guy to come into the pot potentially is angle shooting. Not only are they trying to angle shoot the poker room, but they are angle shooting the rightful winner of the high hand who got the 20 dollars in there playing the game straight up.
At both MGM Nat Harbor and Live MD, saying "I'd like to see a flop, " and then both players checking it down unless either hits and one says "I need help, " is standard and is not discouraged by the dealers or the floor...and no one there ever has a HH invalidated for it.
