Treep Sevens
1/3 NLHE 7 handed
Game is on life support, something to do with a recession maybe? Saturday at 8pm and 1 game going thats 4-8 handed we can barely keep the game open. I know everyone and everyone knows me.
V - TAG ABC for profit full time player. Not super creative or out of line. We usually don't cross paths because (I think) 1. His range is much tighter than mine so I rarely have an equity advantage when he opens and I just fold pre OOP or whatever and 2. If I open he doesn't really want to play vs someone that will make him play for stacks with best pear or whatever. Covers. SB.
350$ effective, V covers.
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Entire table limps to me OTB and I see 7♦ 8♦ and limp, V makes it 30 in SB, everyone folds to me and I call....
Aside: this is really the decision point, do you call here with 15$ in dead money? I would range V here at 99 (50%), TT+ pure, AKo/s, ATs+, he is not messing around.
Flop 70 - K♥ 9♦ 7♠
V cbets 25, we call
Turn 120 - 7♣
V barrels 65, we shove 290ish.
18 Replies
I don't mind the call pre to mix things up. I hate the shove, though, vs. this player. Just flat and let him hang himself.
Yeah, not sure if it is just a small middle of summer sample size or what, but yesterday they got the second table running in my room at 1:00pm (whereas often there can be 3 or sometimes even 4 running by that time). Yikes @ 1 shorthanded table on a Saturday night, WTF?
I also overlimp preflop and now think we have a trivial fold at this stack depth versus a huge 10x raise by a pro (i.e. who's not in the business of donating money postflop like others, even OOP).
For this flop sizing and some backdoors and potential later street steals, I'm ok with the flop.
Admittedly I have a nit image to deal with (which is I'm assuming a problem you don't have), but I would just flat the turn in position. Pro's, unlike a lotta more rec players, are capable of bet/folding, barrelling air, as well as going for that third street of value with TP, so we really don't want to blow him off any of that. Flatting leaves less than a PSB left for the river and there's very few scare cards that could slow down action.
GcluelessNLnoobG
How many limpers preflop? I prefer to raise to 20 OTB pre than to play bingo by calling with 78s. Because Banana plays aggressive poker, a call just caps your range, making it harder both to get folds from a cbet and to disguise your hand. If you were going to call a 30 preflop bet, why not just take control of the action in position and raise to 20 the first time? Taking down the pot preflop with 87 in a raked game with four limpers is a great result. It sets you up to get calls when you actually have a good hand.
No need to shove the turn. If you call, you can stack V on the river.
raise pf
as played fold pf
as played call turn
I would limp/fold preflop, but a raise or the limp/call are not terrible. I would not like initially folding this hand on the button.
Flat call the turn. The board is dry and he isn't playing anything that would make a draw. He may have 2 outs. So use your position. Generally shove the river if he bets. If he checks, shove or bet about half pot.
Call turn wth. You get to call with 7x as well as everything else that can improve to >1pm. You can just rip rivers when checked to with all of it whether you get there or not.
I think shove is ok if we have aggro image.
Question is what hands does he fold to shove?
Air, draws like tj/jq
Can't imagine V folding AA, Kx unless we always have it when we raise turn.
Any how preflop is probably a fold for 30$.
If we’re going to raise we should make it 150. I’d rather flat and let him value bet worse on river.
Shoving turn would be good if it was a wet board and both of you could have draws. Here he could be value betting AA/AK/KQ or he is uncomfortable with QQ/JJ or he has you beat with KK/99 or he is bluffing. You want to let him value bet worse, keep bluffing, or catch something if and A or Q hits.
I don't see what shoving turn accomplishes at all. There is a very small chance he is behind and wins on the river. If he has a pp, he has 2 outs. He could have a gutshot with QJs/QTs if he raises those preflop.
I wouldn't play that way, but I kind of like preflop, playing it HU in position with dead money. He has a defined strong range and you have a wide range.
Yeah, this really is the key question: what are the benefits to shoving here over flatting? I can't think of a single one?
GcluelessbenefitsanalysisnoobG
Weird dynamic where V thinks H never has a 7 here, H is capable of semibluffing things like T8/66-22, V thinks H thinks V has a K here and is capable of making a good fold-->H is induced to shove to get V to fold better.
As I said, weird dynamic, that needs some history to be higher EV than just calling, seeing if V vb's river, and then shoving. If that's the thought process, OK. I think this V as described, grumbles and folds though.
On this super dry board IP against a TAG with a possible AK/AA, I'd rather call the turn and then rip the river.
i think even if you want to raise the turn, something like 150 makes more sense to me
Just flat turn. If you want to raise, raise small. Jamming just let's him off the hook.
Result:
Spoiler
I made a mistake, turn brought in a flush draw in ♠, but flop had one ♦ so like K♠ 9♦ 7♣ 7♠, I shove turn thinking my image will pay me off, V snap calls with A♦ K♦, river K.
A bit more reason to shove turn to rep the flush draw / prevent running spades from killing action.
GcluelessawesumimagenoobG
Definitely better to call the turn - the hands that call the jam will continue betting the river and you have position, but jamming folds out any bluffs he might have or even a hand like JJ/QQ that might check/tank call a river bet. I think raising is the way to go pre being IP - hands like this are great in terms of board coverage as your perceived range and actual hand vary. We'll get a ton of respect on Axx/Kxx boards and make hands on boards that normally aren't good for us.
