3-5bb UTG
What do you do here? You just lost a hand pre against a stack 3-5bb shorter than you. You have no folding equity and will be basically forced to call ATC from BB due to pot odds. What’s your shoving range here?
6 Replies
Obviously you can shove wide here, but I actually tighten up beyond what most people would shove. With no ICM pressure I'm shoving any pair, any ace, any king and really most hands that aren't trash considering something like 1/2 of your stack is about to evaporate into the blinds.
That being said, waiting and being patient is underrated, especially in lower stakes games. You don't want to shove 94o or something. If you're patient you can oftentimes wait a few hands and find a spot where you put in your last 2 bb when like three people are aggressively fighting for the pot. They end up pushing each other out and you can get heads up with a chance to quadruple up or something.
As with many things... It Depends.
Where are we in the tournament? How much is ICM a factor? Do we have 3BB or 5BB?
As GreatWhiteFish implies, the shorter your stack is, the better odds you get on your money, so more spots become profitable.
Anyway, in general, I gotta have a hand that has a shot at making a winner, whether that's a high card that can make top pair or some kind of suited connector.
Not on the bubble, ceteris paribus. I believe some marginal folding equity appears around 6-7bb, at least versus short stacks, so I consider 3-5bb pretty similar. Just general heuristic, as z666 once said
You still can get some folds at 5BB. At 3BB you basically never are but you can still get in situations where you'll be ahead of the caller or have good odds if you get it in after someone else raises (if the blinds fold).
with 5 bigs utg you're not forced allin in big next hand, you can still fold a decent chunk of your range in big or call, see flop with many hands, then donkshove or checkshove.
so you may want to shove decent hands utg, but not all. youll keep your 5+ big blind stack with fold equity potential if you pick up the blinds. you'll rarely get your shove through without being called though from utg with 5bigs. your shoving range will be wider than with 10 bigs, but no yolo crazy shoving.
some randos fold to 3 or 2 big blind shoves, it happens (rarely).
with 3 bigs in big you're somewhere around forced allin.
so if you're utg with 3 bigs, you may want to shove around top50% of your range.
say mp calls you, you win and stack up to 3+3+1+0.5+1 = 8.5bigs.
on the other hand, if you wait till you're in big with 3bigs, then get it in vs SB and win, you stack up to
3+3+1 = 7 bigs, or vs mp you stack up to 3+3+0.5+1 = 7.5bigs.
so you see 8.5bigs > 7.5bigs > 7bigs, another incentive to get it in as utg here and not wait for the next hand in the big.
another scenario: you shove 3bigs utg, mp calls, btn reshoves 25 bigs, mp folds. that's nuts for you, you're heads up for trippling++ up (until btn reveals crackers haha).
but consider the somewhat mirrored situation when you're with 3bigs in the big,
so say mp opens, btn 3bets, you're "forced" allin, mp flats the 3bet, and you're going 3way to the flop ... one player too much!
with 5 bigs utg you're not forced allin in big next hand, you can still fold a decent chunk of your range in big or call, see flop with many hands, then donkshove or checkshove. so you may want to shove decent hands utg, but not all. youll keep your 5+ big blind stack with fold equity potential if you pick up the blinds. you'll rarely get your shove through without being called
my thoughts exactly but calculated. thanks z666!
