Pocket Queens facing 4 Bet PF

If this isn’t AA, he’s the BOSS.

It’s super close EV-wise. If you value to to show your fold on AQx very highly, I’d call. If not, I’d fold (lower variance).

Heck, it's live poker ... and you may see one interesting spot in a long session. So call 😃

Alarm bells are going off yet you decided to 3! from the worst possible position. Then, you got your answer in the 4 bet. At 1/3 this is a very easy fold.

For the record - I know V has a strong hand that has mine beat - I am just asking if I have the correct odds to call the min 4 bet in hopes to hit a set.

I don't think technically you are getting the odds, but I'm not folding for another $70 now.

The implied odds are high enough to call 70 to pure set mine. Just don't get caught up with calling a flop bet on a low board.

You don't know this. You have a player who's opening a lot who now displays a massive sizing tell. Which could mean it's only KK+ or it could mean it's AK or JJ or it could mean he's getting bored. Clearly the 4bet is concerning. If you are confident in your read then I wouldn't call OOP for 3/1; IP would be a different matter. But you have to factor in that you may not be 100% correct in your assertion that you're beaten (although given the 4bet from UTG vs SB in a low stakes game, it's probably not far off 100%). Even so I think I can find a fold here

No disrespect Moxterite but there is prob a 95% chance V has KK or AA here and maybe 5% he has AKs. No one is 4 betting in a 1/3 non match-the-stack game with spaz or even JJ imo.

Especially when V's opening in an UTG spot, with a size that has not been his norm in the 1-1.5 hours ive been sitting with him.

Well if that's the case then it's an obvious fold given stack sizes, unless you can somehow turn the hand into a bluff on a T98 type board.

It's so funny to me when someone tries to tell the OP they don't know their opponent. That said, the 3bet was spew 😉 You could have set-mined for $12!

Well if the question is phrased as "We are sat behind V and can see his cards what should we do" then that's an entirely different matter and giving any info on his previous action is irrelevant

If you started the hand with 550 and you are sure this is AA or KK, you should fold. 70*8 =560, more than your starting stack, so it looks like a close call, but there is the issue of what happens when you flop your set but there is also an overcard. So for example on a flop of AQx, are you ahead of KK which won’t give action? Or are you still behind AA? How about KQx? Maybe you stack AA but you get stacked by KK. And you also can’t forget that you could flop top set, get it in and still lose. If the stacks were deep enough these wouldn’t be overriding considerations but now they are.

CMV, I think you forgot the dead money in the pot. That pushes it to a slight call. Set over set is a very low probability.

Just call the min-click and see what happens on the flop.

I wouldn't read too much into the larger open size here, without more info. If his $6 opens were getting multiple callers, he may just be sizing up as an adjustment. The 4B is concerning in a vacuum, but the sizing is suspicious. I wouldn't be shocked if he showed up with JJ or TT.

It would be helpful to know what sort of hands he's been showing down, and how he plays post flop, especially as the PFR. Does he always c-bet? Does he use geometric sizing? Is he capable of running multi-street bluffs, or making big folds? Does he back down when an opponent plays back at him?

The frequent raises for small sizes is generally going to indicate he's opening too many hands, so while the larger open size is concerning, we may not know enough to be certain his range is just KK+ here.

H elects to make the call and has pretty much given up on the hand unless a Q appears on the flop.

H Effective Stack of 420ish

Flop (300ish)

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V leads out for 75 and I fold.

V was kind enough to show pocket aces. I really think many of us are underestimating the nuttiness of 4bets in the lowest live-stake games in the room/area.

Respectfully, this is a sample size of one. It's not enough to suggest 4B's are always nutted, especially not with the additional reads.

Regardless, QQ is a pretty standard 3B pre, and we were getting the correct odds to call the min-click 4B. Folding in that spot is just a massive deviation that we probably shouldn't be making, even if / when we're certain that V always has a bigger PP.

If he shows up with AK or JJ even a sliver of the time, we're over-adjusting.

Even with the slight overlook of the dead money, I'm with Vernon.

Even in the dream spot of getting it all in on a Q high flop, we'll still get stacked upwards of 10% of the time (and even at "low probability" this is still devastating given the very poor preflop IO we're getting). The AQx versus KK (versus AA) and Txx versus AK are realistic poor IO (or RIO) spots too that can't be ignored at this meh of preflop IO.

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